BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS MEETING
SEPTEMBER 15, 2009
I. CALL MEETING TO ORDER
The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m.
II. ROLL CALL
Members Present: Robert Diehl, Jane Huber, Dave Okum, William Reichert,
Robert Emerson, and Randy Danbury
Members Absent: Robert Weidlich
Others Present: Randy Campion, Inspection Supervisor
III. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
IV. MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING OF 18 AUGUST, 2009
Mr. Reichert moved for acceptance the August 18, 2009 Board of Zoning Appeals Meeting minutes, Mrs. Huber seconded the motion and with 6 aye, votes with one member absent, the minutes were adopted.
a. Zoning Bulletin - August 10, 2009
VI. REPORT ON COUNCIL
Mr. Danbury: We had a Council meeting two weeks ago and we did not have any items to consider before us that night.
VII. REPORT ON PLANNING COMMISSION
Chairman Okum gave the report on Planning Commission summarizing the cellular tower request for Cricket Communications and the decision to continue in progress to the October 13, 2009 Planning Commission meeting.
VIII. CHAIRMANS STATEMENT AND SWEARING IN OF APPLICANTS
IX. OLD BUSINESS
(No Old Business presented at this meeting.)
X. NEW BUSINESS
A. The owner of 853 Tivoli Lane requests a variance to allow the elimination of a garage. Said variance is from Section 153.105(B) A single two-car garage and related parking area is required
Lonnie Turner: I live at 853 Tivoli Lane. We moved in about two months ago and the garage was already half remodeled; whoever lived there before didnt get a chance to finish it. We went ahead and remodeled and did away with the garage. I wasnt aware that you had to have a permit to do anything on the inside. We have planned, as far as the parking goes, to widen the driveway; I know I need a permit for that.
(At this time, Mr. Campion read the Staff report.)
(Chairman Okum opened the floor to the audience for comments.)
Marie Patterson: I am Mr. Turners fiancÚ and I live at 853 Tivoli Lane. When we originally went through the house it was handicap accessible. There was a ramp going into the garage, into the laundry room and you couldnt get my car into the garage without the door hitting it. Originally I said No, I cant do this, and the real estate agent told us we could enlarge on out, half the floor is already done; so that is what we did. We did take down a wall that was between the half of garage and the living room.
(Ms. Patterson submitted pictures of the garage as it is today to the Board of Zoning Appeals.)
Chairman Okum: There is a wall where the garage door was?
Ms. Patterson: Yes.
Chairman Okum: The garage door was already removed when you purchased the property?
Ms. Patterson: No, it was behind that wall.
(No further audience members came forward and Chairman Okum closed this portion of the hearing.)
Mrs. Huber: I make a motion to grant a variance from Section 153.105(B), so as to allow the conversion of the garage into living space, as reference from Section 153.105(B) A single two-car garage and related parking is required This property is located at 853 Tivoli Lane.
Mr. Emerson seconded the motion.
Chairman Okum: What was the handicap ramp constructed of?
Ms. Patterson: It was wood; the whole floor was built up to it.
Chairman Okum: The laundry room floor was lower than the garage floor?
Ms. Patterson: Yes.
Chairman Okum: What means are you going to use to handle storage of miscellaneous items?
Mr. Turner: We just put up a 10 X 10 shed. I did have a permit for that. It has been inspected by your Building Inspector.
Chairman Okum: Your addition is very pretty on the inside, but from the outside it probably looks like a closed in garage door with a window in it. Are you landscaping in front of that window?
Ms. Patterson: That is all concrete. I was going to put a window box there in the spring.
Chairman Okum: What size is your parking area going to be?
Ronnie Patterson: I was going to make it accessible for both of their cars.
Chairman Okum: So, it is basically two cars wide; 18 or 20 wide?
Ronnie Patterson: It wont even be that wide; I would say 14 wide.
Chairman Okum: I dont think your real estate person helped at all.
Mr. Diehl: Was that garage door operational before you took it down?
Ms. Patterson: No, I dont know what was wrong with it; it didnt have half of the stuff on the ceiling.
Mr. Diehl: Are you going to take the concrete all the way up to the house, or are you going to leave some room for shrubs and so forth?
Mr. Patterson: The way it is right now, is the driveway butts up to the house all the way across the front of the building; what we planned on doing is taking the concrete slab out from in front on the house and making the driveway go up and then having the sidewalk off the driveway to the front door so there would be grass.
Mr. Diehl: So you could plant shrubs between the driveway and the house?
Mr. Patterson: Yes.
Chairman Okum: Mr. Campion, is there a standard for a two-car driveway width?
Mr. Campion: Usually they consider a parking space to be 9; so 18 would be a standard two-car.
Chairman Okum: This is going to look like a vinyl-sided opening; do you have any suggestions on how you can break that up?
Ms. Patterson: In the spring we were planning on redoing the whole front with flowers and repainting the outside.
Chairman Okum: Could you possible create a planting bed all the way across the house?
Mr. Patterson: Except for the front porch.
Mr. Reichert: I would like to make an amendment to the motion that 36 of concrete in front of the house be removed and a green space be provided including plantings of vertical and low lying elements of shrubbery and evergreens.
Mr. Danbury seconded the motion.
Mr. Reichert: Does he have sufficient amount of time as we will be going into the winter months soon? I would like to incorporate 240 days 8 months to have completion and also along with this amendment a double-wide driveway of 18.
Mr. Danbury seconded the amendment to the original motion.
Mrs. Huber polled the Board of Zoning Appeals Members and with a 6-0 aye vote, with one member absent, the amendment to the motion was accepted.
Mrs. Huber again polled the Board of Zoning Appeals Members and with a 6-0 aye vote the request for a variance at 853 Tivoli Lane was granted.
B. The owner of 11093 Springfield Pike request a variance to locate an outdoor produce sales stand on the property. Said variance is from Section 153.216(A) Principally permitted uses shall be as follows retail sales; within wholly enclosed buildings.
Mr. Barry Cooper: I live at 536 Clemray Drive in Springfield Township. The concept is an open-air market similar to Findlay Market, multiple vendors that has a street atmosphere; we would like to duplicate that on this property. This concept doesnt work inside so we are looking for a variance to do specifically that, sell fruits and vegetables in a tent-like atmosphere, similar to your Farmers Market that you have here, only year round, 5-6 days a week probably Tuesday through Sunday; temporary structure most of the time it will be put away every night and taken off the property and set back up in the morning. The exception might be to that in the winter time if we elect to stay open we would probably look at a tent-like structure, an awning type of thing; the produce will be removed every night.
Chairman Okum: What is the period of time, your hours of operation that you would want this variance for?
Mr. Cooper: Generally speaking about 9:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m., Tuesday through Sunday.
(At this time, Mr. Campion read the Staff report.)
Chairman Okum: I believe that last line means that this is zoned GB General Business, and its function would serve as GB the way it is.
Mr. Campion: Yes.
Chairman Okum: Does this have a parking area?
Mr. Cooper: Yes, it does have parking there because it used to be a restaurant. The vegetable produce area would only take up basically where the restaurant was; it has a slab there now, a vacant slab. The adjacent building that is also part of this property is a vacant house that has been abandoned; I talked to the owner and he said he would tear that building down, but there is plenty of parking particularly for this kind of application where you are going to have people there for approximately fifteen minutes.
Mr. Reichert: I understand that you want a year-round operation?
Mr. Cooper: That is our intent; typically things slow down in January and February. We bring in vegetables from all over so it doesnt make any difference. We use local produce when we can, but as the seasons change obviously we cant get tomatoes in here in December, they come from down south, but obviously avocados and things come from Mexico.
Mr. Reichert: You do not own the property?
Mr. Cooper: I do not own the property. I would be leasing the property.
Mr. Reichert: The problem that we might have with this is the variance goes with that property forever.
Mr. Emerson: Do you have a warehouse somewhere and you are going to bring it in by van?
Mr. Cooper: We have a trailer; a 16 X 8 wide and 7 tall. I designed display tables and they are on wheels. The thing is fully stocked when we come in we just roll them off. It takes about 15 minutes to set it up and about 20 minutes to put it away; works like a charm.
Mr. Emerson: If the owner knocks that house down are you planning on taking the whole property to do this or just a small portion?
Mr. Cooper: If is works, yes. Our intent would be to broaden this thing, and we are talking in the future if it got that far, if this thing works. I feel pretty confident it is a great location for it and we have had experience selling. We supply vegetables to Findlay Market, places like that.
Mrs. Huber: You said that there will be parking available; will it be on concrete or asphalt surface?
Mr. Cooper: It is asphalt right now.
Mrs. Huber: And that will be maintained?
Mr. Cooper: Yes; it is in good shape right now. I think there was an Italian restaurant there years ago and the slab is left; perfect place to set up the stands and the parking is all around it. The adjacent buildings are there with the driveway.
Mr. Campion: Is this at the corner of Sharon Road or close to it?
Mr. Cooper: Very close to the corner, there is the Springdale Medical building and then there was an animal hospital, so it is the third lot down from Sharon Road.
Mr. Campion: I believe they were taking that building down today, the house.
Chairman Okum: That is to the right of this.
Mr. Campion: And they were taking the fence down.
Mr. Cooper: That would improve things.
Mr. Reichert: Do you have intentions to have other companies or organizations join you on this lot in the future; you said expand?
Mr. Cooper: It is our experience particularly like at Findlay Market and at the flea markets like at Traders World and those places that activity breeds activity. It is actually good to have two or three fresh vegetable vendors there but typically there are going to be local people like Farmers Market type of people and usually just on the weekends; so that is the way it pretty much works. At Findlay Market there are three permanent vegetable vendors but on the weekends in the summertime you might have thirty out there and that is what creates the buzz and the excitement and that street atmosphere that we would like to recreate. The other thing is if it would work I would say in a two year period we would like to bring in a butcher and that would be a permanent building; that would be the ultimate situation, a butcher and a cheese store to go with the vegetables.
Mr. Reichert: Does the owner have any plans for that property?
Mr. Cooper: At the moment, no he does not. He would like to sell it to me, but I am hesitant to sink that kind of money into this thing until we get proof of the feasibility. The beauty of this thing is we can go in there and we can turn this thing over fairly quick with little or no impact; the only impact that I see is a positive impact, because right now it looks fairly bad. This would at least improve the situation and if it doesnt work, there is really no harm done and again I recognize the fact that if he sold it tomorrow I would have the lease that is all I would have. The intent would be to keep it, of course. Right now we just have an agreement in principle, because we both knew we had to go through this process.
Mr. Reichert: What would your intent be, a yearly lease?
Mr. Cooper: A year lease is what I am thinking, especially this time of year.
Mr. Diehl: Once you get set up, in your experience how many people will be there or how many cars will be there at a given time?
Mr. Cooper: That is a good question; it is generally ten to twelve customers an hour during the peak time, that would be typical, at any one time not per hour. At any one time there wouldnt be any more that ten and that is during peak hours which is really mid-afternoon, you get very few people in the morning. It picks up from noon on until about three oclock to four oclock.
Mr. Diehl: Where are you going to have these people park in relationship to the slab?
Mr. Cooper: They are going to be right in front of like where they would have normally parked when there was a restaurant.
Mr. Emerson: Have you considered setting up a booth in the Farmers Market?
Mr. Cooper: Yes, I looked at it and again it is one of those things where one night a week didnt really suite our business plan. We are set up more for the every day kind of thing.
Mr. Emerson: So on Thursday night you will basically be competing for business?
Mr. Cooper: Well, again they are going to sell their local stuff and there is a charm to that. We sell local corn and melons too but we actually are going to be full service; we are going to have things that they cant get, avocados and that kind of thing, papayas; we carry about seventy-five different items. Most of the stuff is things you cant get locally although when we can get it we use Ohio tomatoes, we have watermelons and sweet corn, but that is three months of the year; to be honest with you, you dont make a whole lot of money on corn anyway.
Mr. Danbury: Mr. Diehl, I think the thing is if you recall going to Germanos then Vincenzos I think they had a seating capacity of maybe 30 to 40 people. And that was a question I had as well, as far as the Farmers Market that we have here it is just one night and the concept behind that was to have locally grown produce, where as you said we may have things in here like peaches coming in when we first opened; we dont have any locally grown peaches. It is an interesting concept and more and more people are trying to find good deals.
I have a question for Chairman Okum; about two years ago there was an opportunity that came in that Jeff Tulloch put together where they were going to have on the corner Medical offices; what is the status of that?
Chairman Okum: They have not come back before Planning Commission. They had a final plan approval at Planning level; until they build something it is just there.
Mr. Danbury: Well, it was approved from Council.
Chairman Okum: Until they develop it.
Mr. Diehl: They are looking for tenants to commit.
Getting back to your situation, I got to tell you when I first looked at that I thought What a stupid idea this is, and then I read it again and again and I thought that this is not a bad concept it might work but in going back to my first question; it is either going to work or it is not going to work there wont be any in-between; if this thing works you are not going to have enough parking and it is not an easy place to get in and out of to begin with so that is a big concern of mine. What will you do if it is beyond your imagination successful?
Mr. Cooper: I forget what the acreage is there but I cant imagine a situation where if you tore the house down and made that parking and you have three vendors out there and the vegetables dont take up that much room; we have six tables that are 6 long that fold out to 3 deep and if you make a double isle you can get 75 vegetables in a 20 X 20 space so if you had three vendors and they are not going to be as big as this one - I cant imagine a situation where if you tore the house down and had that driveway and made that all parking that it wouldnt be able to handle it.
Mr. Diehl: If this takes off really good and you want to get a butcher and a candlestick maker and all the other stuff, where are you going to put all these people?
Mr. Cooper: You are right, if it got that big there probably wouldnt be enough parking, you are right. That would be great; I just dont foresee that happening right now, maybe three years from now. There is also the animal hospital next door that is vacant and there is that possibility.
Chairman Okum: No; it has an owner and I think a permit eventually. I know the owner.
Mrs. Huber: On all of these things that you gave us it says Daisy Maes Market, I have nothing against Little Abner or anybody but is that the name you have chosen?
Mr. Cooper: That is the name we have chosen, that was my grandmothers name, Daisy Mae.
Mr. Emerson: I would really like to see you succeed, myself because we all know that there is a place right up here in Fairfield that started out selling produce on a corner lot where a building was knocked down. I would like to see you tied to Springdale.
Mr. Cooper: Thank you. I have had some experience with you before, I am actually a homebuilder and I have built some houses here.
Mr. Danbury: Mr. Diehl, we have a lot of empty space around here that I am sure we can accommodate you. We would like to see you stick around and see you successful, Jungle Jims started out exactly the same way.
Mr. Cooper: I am not really looking to get that big.
Chairman Okum: He didnt think so either.
Mr. Cooper: If you have been to Findlay Market you can feel that vibrancy, all the people milling around, I think that is a fun atmosphere. It has a flavor to it that you cant get at a Kroger.
Chairman Okum: Because it is supposed to be in an enclosed building is where the hang-up is, if there was an enclosed building there and it doesnt say what size it is, but if there was an enclosed building there like the one they are knocking down I think it would be more apropos that this applied to a Conditional Use Variance where you can have some control. I would love to see something like this and I think it is sort of a neat idea; it might blossom and grow and be a market but there are no restrooms there so that means there are going to be Port-o-lets there; it is the only means of sanitary conditions for customers. Those are things to consider. I am sort of feeling that personally I object to it and I would not vote in favor of it being a variance. If this gentleman can come up with another way to accommodate the use of the property for that type of GB application and did go through the Conditional Use Variance, go through Planning Commission but there are conditions set on it and you are basically allowed to do it to a point where it doesnt become a public nuisance. It is not a permanent zoning change; basically what you are asking us to do hear is a zoning change to this property to allow outdoor commercial sales, consider how broad that gets to GB districts in the City of Springdale for outdoor sales without any conditions. That is where it becomes more difficult for me because I have to look at it as more than just this one parcel.
Mr. Cooper: You dont want velvet Elvis popping up.
Chairman Okum: There are ways of doing it, but I think the key is you need restroom facilities in my opinion, you need some type of structure it doesnt need to be huge or massive but you need something. My recommendation would be that you have this concrete slab, you have this site, there is probably a sewer tap there and there is probably still water there, then invest something but before you do that go through the Planning process with the City of Springdale; work with the Staff and work our City Planner to try to bring this to fruition. On the other hand, if we say o.k. the outdoor sales approach to this parcel GB, I think this is opening up big time when we deal with the other GB districts, consider all the GB zoning we have all up and down Route 4 and they have no hardship. At this point I am probably not going to be supporting the variance, so it is going to take some creativity and some involvement and some commitment on your part, more than just driving up your truck and unloading your racks and setting it up. I take into consideration sanitary issues, I take into consideration backing out and pulling out onto Route 4, all those things have to be laid out. We have a City Planner, Staff, Economic Development Coordinator and we have a Building Department and some very, very talented people that could really help make things work.
Mr. Cooper: It doesnt really solve my immediacy issue; we wanted to set this up and get going. The future, maybe we will look at that; I will talk to my partner and we will see. You are now asking us to put a lot more money into it than we started off with. There are other options I can go to, other places that dont require all that but I like this location best, I even like the fact that it is next to Maple Knoll, I thought that we could do something jointly with those people. It might be difficult to drive into, but there are a lot of people that go up and down that road.
Chairman Okum: Then you are going to want some signage; there are all kinds of things that are tied.
Mr. Campion: I just wanted to add, as far as the restrooms, and I would have to research it, I believe he has to provide restrooms for his employees but not the public if they are not going to eat anything or spend any amount of time there; but he does have to have something for his employees.
Mr. Danbury: The Farmers Market we have here, there are no public restrooms there, they may have Port-o-lets but there are none available. They could go to some of the establishments. For him to do a permanent structure this is conceptual and he wants to see if this is going to fly here. I dont know many banks that are going to go out and try to loan people in this market on a fruit stand to build something. As far as us giving a conditional variance, I dont know.
Chairman Okum: We cant do it. It is a Planning Commission issue and there has to be a structure contained within an establishment in order for it to apply.
Mr. Campion: It does apply to commercial recreation.
Chairman Okum: It sounds like a ball field.
Mr. Danbury: It all depends on do we want it here, because he doesnt have to stay here? I dont have any problem with it.
Mr. Diehl: I would really like to see this thing happen and this is a pretty good cross-section of the population here and I think you get the general feeling that we would like to see this happen but we also share some of the feelings Mr. Okum has. Is your landlord willing to do anything here?
Mr. Cooper: Again the big issue with the conversation I have had with him is that we have to get it through the zoning thing and he said then we will see if we can sit down and talk. We cant even do a tentative agreement on numbers. He is a business man, he wants to do something; of course he wants to sell it to me and that is a possibility if I can prove this thing works.
(Chairman Okum opened the floor to the audience, no one came forward and this portion of the hearing was closed.)
Mr. Emerson: I would like to make a motion for a variance to allow an open air produce stand from Section 153.216(A) at 11093 Springfield Pike.
Mr. Reichert seconded the motion.
Chairman Okum: What is the space required for your unit only?
Mr. Cooper: About 20 X 20.
Chairman Okum: So if you had your candlestick maker and your baker and everybody else, how much space would you need?
Mr. Cooper: The biggest one would be the butcher; a butcher would take up
20 X 50.
Chairman Okum: Would that be in a building?
Mr. Cooper: Yes, it would because of Health Codes.
Chairman Okum: Then the GB would apply to that. If the Board is going to consider it I feel there should be some limitations on space for the site and if it is limited to 20 X 20 then that would be the variance so it would be no more than that until such time that something changes. I still feel going through the Planning process, doing it right is much better than just throwing something on the table.
Mr. Emerson: The variance is for an open-air produce stand, if it gets to the point where he has to expand and bring the butcher in and the cheese shop, that over-runs the open-air part.
Chairman Okum: But lets say that he adds other vendors, five, ten, fifteen, twenty or forty vendors on that site; you are granting a variance to allow it. Your variance is based upon an open-air market. I am being factual that is what you end up with unless you add restrictions and definition to it then you are saying that entire parcel is eligible for an open-air market; without any limitations or any restrictions, no standards, no issues.
Mr. Diehl: Chairman Okum, I feel we cant act upon this, no matter what. We dont have the landlord here and according to Mr. Coopers testimony he doesnt even have a lease at this point. Until someone who officially owns this property requests a variance I dont think we can act.
Chairman Okum: We have an owners affidavit, which means he is the legal representative for them, lease or no lease.
Mr. Emerson: When does Planning Board meet next?
Chairman Okum: It is the second Tuesday of October; the deadline for submissions is over but the Chair could push that. There would be a lot more involved for submitting.
Mr. Emerson: So he would have to wait until November. When were you planning on trying to get started?
Mr. Cooper: We could start next week. That is how quick we can do this.
Chairman Okum: I dont think there is a person on this Board that is not comfortable with trying this. The difficulty is creating this machine, making this alteration to our Zoning Code for this parcel that creates a permanency that stays with it forever.
Mr. Cooper: There is no way to get around that at all?
Mr. Reichert: I am wondering if we can make an amendment and say that the stand set-up would be limited to 20 X 30; that way with expansion in the future you would have to come back for another variance. If you limit his space set-up that would give you a year or two to try it out.
Mr. Cooper: I think we should know by this time next year if it will pick up and go. We need to get through the summer, but it will be a struggle this winter; we can do the Christmas trees and we could do pumpkins.
Mr. Campion: I know variances are forever but this Board has approved occupational licenses such as the woman who had the dog license that expired or had to be renewed every year.
Chairman Okum: It is a tough one in our Law Directors book; it has definitely been questioned by the Law Directors office on a number of occasions.
Mr. Reichert, is that a motion?
Mr. Reichert: I think I am going to go back to making an amendment that the area be 20 X 30.
Mr. Cooper: That is fine. We can deal with that.
Mr. Emerson: I will second that motion.
At this time Mrs. Huber polled the Board on the amendment to the motion and with 5 aye votes and 1 no vote, the amendment was accepted.
Chairman Okum: What about signage?
Mrs. Huber: If he uses these colorful umbrellas that should be enough.
Mr. Cooper: As far as the signage, the only thing would be on the trailer itself; we actually sit it behind the tables.
Mr. Emerson: Do you do any kind of advertising in the papers?
Mr. Cooper: Not in the paper yet, cause we have no location, but we have a blog, a twitter and a website. We have run this stand at Traders World and those places up there just to get the bugs worked out of it. There are people that actually follow us and they are looking forward to when we can get it going full blast.
Chairman Okum: Is there any reason why your truck would stay there 24/7, seven days a week?
Mr. Cooper: No. We do not want to leave it there because we have to replenish the stock.
Chairman Okum: What about inclement weather, do you have a tent?
Mr. Cooper: The tent would be the same kind as the umbrellas, it has multiple colored stripes on it. That would be the one thing that we would tend to want to leave up because it is a bear to take down every night; it is a 20 X 20.
Mr. Campion: The zoning doesnt allow for delivery trucks with signage.
Chairman Okum: Could he leave his tent there all year?
Mr. Campion: Possibly. Maybe we could consider the tent a structure. Also, delivery trucks are not really allowed, they are supposed to be in the loading dock area, but we do have something in our ordinance that says they cant be seen from the right of way.
Mr. Cooper: We deliver everything with the trailer anyway.
Chairman Okum: I am thinking a tractor trailer with a refrigeration unit on it, would that be permitted?
Mr. Campion: No. I dont think it would be permitted.
Mr. Cooper: Something that big, we would never use it.
Chairman Okum: I am looking thirty years down the road, because you have a zoning variance that stays with the land. We do say that we have a canopy of
20 X 20 that has some stripes on it that is similar to the umbrellas in the proposal.
Mr. Cooper: In good weather we wouldnt normally have it up, but in the winter time we would want to keep it because we have to keep those vegetables from freezing.
Chairman Okum: Is it going to be heated?
Mr. Cooper: If anything it would be a small space heater. If you keep everything covered up there is enough heat generated in there that it would be fine.
Chairman Okum: If we all think about that site there with that slant, the old Vincenzos, it is elevated about 8 up off the ground and that means people are going to be stepping up that 8 lip around that perimeter.
Mr. Cooper: Actually, it is flat. There is no trip hazard.
Chairman Okum: Would the motion to change 20 to 30 be bigger than the slab that is there?
Mr. Cooper: I do not think so, I didnt measure it but I can park my Trail Blazer on it and there is plenty of room out in front of it, so that is 17 right there. It has to be at least 20 long and it is 16 deep at the minimum.
Mr. Danbury: If your hours are going to be from nine oclock to six oclock, Tuesday through Sunday and that is year round, what about electricity?
Mr. Cooper: We have to talk to the landlord, but there is power there it is just a matter of putting a meter on a pole or something.
Mr. Danbury: In November it is going to be cold and you are going to have to have some kind heaters.
Mr. Cooper: Propane heaters will keep it more than enough warm; again people are only going to be there 10 or 15 minutes at the most.
Mr. Danbury: It is going to be dark there early.
Mr. Cooper: And the lighting is an issue; we havent really addressed that. I do have generators, but I dont want to run those if I can avoid that.
Mr. Diehl: Mr. Cooper, I know you want to get started immediately but would it make a difference to you that you didnt get started say until November or December? I was wondering if it would be advantageous for you to request a continuance of this hearing and you can go back to the landlord and tell him you had a favorable response and work out some of the details and then come back to us?
Mr. Cooper: If that is the way you want to go, that is fine. We would like to catch the pumpkin season.
Mr. Diehl: I would feel better if we would know some of the details.
Chairman Okum: I agree, there are a lot of issues, signage, lights, restrooms, parking allocation fields. You dont want people backing out onto Route 4, so you want to make sure that is addressed. I just want to make sure it is planned out and we are not just granting variances to be encouraging business development but there is a plan for how this happens. I will at this point be voting in opposition.
Mr. Cooper: I see that the biggest concern you have is setting a precedent?
Chairman Okum: That is part of it.
Mr. Cooper: The restrooms arent a problem, if we need Port-o-lets for us that is fine. Parking is not going to be like a Kroger where you have 65 or 70 cars there, this is quick in and quick out; I dont really see that as a big issue. I can see where the tent would be an issue but if you do this right I think it will be attractive.
Mr. Campion: The trailer and the mobile signs are prohibited in the City of Springdale. You could probably have a ground sign; these are things that are up for interpretation.
Mr. Cooper: To be quite frank, our situation is that we are looking for a place to go and we have got three places marked; I am the one spearheading this thing because I have had experience with this stuff before and I am not willing to abandon it even if we have to go through the time, but the thing is they might want to start something somewhere else and if that seems to work then they will stick with that.
Chairman Okum: We will call it to question and vote on it if you want us to, it doesnt prohibit you from coming back. The Law Director has made it very clear, so you can reapply for next month.
Mr. Cooper: We have nothing to lose, go ahead and shoot for it and if it doesnt go I will go back to my people and if they want to reconsider we will go from there.
Mr. Campion: I think you may want to talk to Mr. McErlane on Monday.
Mr. Cooper: What would you like me to talk to Mr. McErlane about?
Chairman Okum: The items brought up are all items on this Boards mind and an avenue you can get what you want without setting some precedent that would affect other GB districts in Springdale may be an issue; maybe he has some other ideas.
Mr. Cooper: O.K. I can talk to him. I have to go back to my people and I would like to say that it looks promising. In all reality if we wait until next month we are probably not going to do this until the spring. There is a big season coming up for all of this stuff; pumpkins.
Chairman Okum: If the Board wants to vote, I will vote.
Mr. Cooper: Well lets just stop and I will talk to Bill on Monday and we will wait until November.
Chairman Okum: In my opinion I would like to redirect it to a Conditional Use Variance that has controls and limitations. The first step is you would meet with
Mr. McErlane and try to address the items that have been brought up at this meeting and then you will come back to the next meeting which is October; even if you got a no vote at that meeting you could do a dual application and do a Conditional Use application if it would apply.
Mr. Cooper: Well, lets go that way.
Chairman Okum: The applicant has requested that this be tabled to the October Board of Zoning Appeals meeting. We need a motion on the floor.
Mrs. Huber: So moved.
Mr. Reichert seconded the motion.
(Excluding Mr. Danbury, all Board of Zoning Members voted by an aye vote to table the request until the October meeting.)
Chairman Okum: It is non-debatable, Mr. Danbury.
Mr. Danbury: Discussion on the motion?
Chairman Okum: No discussion. Im sorry, that is Roberts Rules and I cant change that. You cannot discuss a motion to table. We can bring it back on the floor but once a motion comes to table there is no discussion on the motion to table.
Mr. Danbury: Basically, the gentleman is here and some of us already know how we are going to vote.
Chairman Okum: Do you want to bring it back on the floor? You need a vote to bring it.
Mr. Danbury: I would like to make a motion that we bring back the issue before us.
Mr. Diehl seconded the motion.
Chairman Okum: It is back on the floor; the table is null and void.
Mr. Danbury is requesting that the amended motion for the 20 X 30 space be voted on.
Mrs. Huber polled the Board of Zoning Appeals members and with 4 aye votes
and 2 no votes the request for the variance with conditions that the stand set-up be limited to 20 X 30 was granted for 11093 Springfield Pike.
Mr. Cooper: I will still meet with Mr. McErlane and address the problems; we will get it worked out.
Chairman Okum: There are things that the City will have as standards and requirements.
(No discussion presented at this meeting.)
Chairman Okum: So, with that, Ill accept a motion for adjournment.
Mr. Reichert moved to adjourn and Mrs. Huber seconded the motion, the Board of Zoning Appeals adjourned at 8:58 p.m.
Chairman Dave Okum
Secretary Jane Huber