AUGUST 20, 2002


  2. Chairman David Okum called the meeting to order at 7:05 p.m.

  4. Members Present: Councilperson Marge Pollitt, Bob Weidlich, Bob Apke

    Councilperson James Squires, Fred Borden, Jane

    Huber and Chairman David Okum

    Others Present: Richard G. Lohbeck, Inspection Supervisor


Mr. Squires made a motion to adopt and Mrs. Huber seconded. The motion passed with seven affirmative votes.


  1. Planning Commission Meeting Minutes 9 July 2002
  2. Letter to Walker Pontiac dated 18 July 2002
  3. Ordinance 29-2002
  4. Ordinance 30-2002


  1. Report on Council Activities Ė Jim Squires said there are two ordinances in the packets that recently came before Council. Ordinance 29 dealt with amending the Zoning Code, Article II Ė Definitions. It talks about a teen club. We canít keep them out but we can regulate them. The teen club was proposed by two owners named Wilson. They operate what used to be Max & Ermaís on Boggs Lane. They wanted to convert that into a teen club. Teen clubs have not been very well received in other parts of Hamilton County. One of the stipulations they had was that the club was for teens and parents were not allowed. That didnít go over well with Council. We donít intend to operate teen clubs in Springdale where we as adults canít get in to see whatís going on with our children. Thatís part of the criteria in Ordinance 29.
  2. Mark Rust, 11500 Hickory Street

    Mr. Squires said Ordinance 30 amended the codified ordinances of the City of Springdale regarding animals. Our ordinance stated that there would be no more than two pets per household. Council decided to leave the ordinance the way it is with no more than 2 dogs, 2 cats or one dog and one cat. The government of Springdale acts only on complaints of people. If people have three, four, or five pets in the household and they arenít causing complaints to surrounding neighbors, we traditionally arenít going to do a lot. If there are complaints then we have an ordinance on the books and we can do something about it then. We didnít want to increase it to three for the fear that people might think that if they can have three, then they can have four.

  3. Mr. Okum said the Planning Commission meeting was called to order, a conditional use permit was continued until this coming Thursday when the meeting will reconvene. United Dairy Farmerís is on the agenda. Itís good to see a good attendance here tonight but itís unusual for Planning Commission not to have the same. Planning Commission was short people but I donít want anyone to think Planning Commission is always slacking off. We felt it would be unfair for the people making a request to come before four members with one more coming. Things passing at Planning need five votes. Otherwise, it would go to Council with a negative non-approval.

Mr. Squires said Council acted on United Dairy Farms, offering them quite a few variances to proceed with their building. We hope for the Administration to close the deal very soon with Carl Lindner and Associates and United Dairy Farmers for the purchase of that land formerly known as the Burns property. They will be extending their store into a superstore. It will be quite an asset to Springdale but we have to get some clearance from the EPA on the land use.

Mr. Okum asked do they know when they will have the EPA releases? Mr. Squires replied no, we donít. At the latest meeting I had with the Administration they did not have a date. The latest letter from the EPA said they still have some concerns but they havenít said no.

  2. OLD BUSINESS - none
    1. Mark Rust, 11500 Hickory Street requests a variance to allow the construction of a 7í x 7í deck on the front of his house. Said variance is requested from Section 153.580(D) ". . . may project six feet into a required front yard . . ."
    2. Mr. Rust said the deck was given to me and I put it in the front of my house not knowing I needed a permit. Then Mr. Lohbeck sent me a letter saying I needed a permit. I didnít know I needed a variance. I brought it out to my sidewalk so that when you walked off the deck youíd be on the sidewalk. There are flower beds on both sides of my house so if I put it anywhere else you would walk off into the flower bed.

      Mrs. Huber said I go and look at the sites all the time. It appears to me to be a little thing around his stoop.

      Mr. Rust said it was a concrete slab where you walked out of the house. Itís on top of the steps.

      Mrs. Huber said Hickory Street was laid out in the 1800s and they really do not know where the right-of-way is so we could probably be well into what he is allowed.

      Mr. Squires stated that we know that the existing building you have is legal but non-conforming with respect to the setbacks because it existed before the Zoning Code. Mr. Lohbeck, could you enunciate your staff comments.

      Mr. Lohbeck said 11500 Hickory Street requested to allow a deck to encroach on the front yard setback. The applicant has requested to allow a 7í x 7í wood deck to remain on the front of his residence. The deck was erected without a permit. The request is from 153.580(D) which allows a deck to project no more than six feet into a required front yard. The required front yard in Section 153.100(A) is thirty feet with a permitted six food encroachment per Section 153.580(D). The deck would be required to be 24 feet from the right-of-way. The existing building is legally non-conforming with respect to setbacks because it existed prior to the Zoning Code. The existing building only has a front yard setback of approximately 14 feet and the deck has a setback of 7 feet from the right-of-way. It is worth noting however, that the streets of this subdivision were laid out in the 1800s. The street at this location is not centered in the right-of-way and is actually located further from the house than would normally be the case. The approximate distance from the deck to the pavement on Hickory Street is approximately 23 feet.

      Mr. Squires said having that read into the record and the fact that you are living on a piece of property that is quite old, and the last sentence of staff comments says the approximate distance from the deck to the edge of the pavement is approximately 23 feet,I would move that the variance to allow the deck to remain be allowed. Mrs. Huber seconded.

      Ms. Pollitt said I too drove over and looked at the deck. From the street itís not presenting an eyesore problem. It doesnít look too large or out of place. I donít think you could get by with much smaller than that and have it be serviceable.

      The variance was granted with seven affirmative votes.



      Rich Fish, 455 West Kemper Road

    3. Rick Fish, 455 West Kemper Road requests variance to allow the construction of a 30í x 40í garage. Said variance is requested from Section 153.075(B) "The garage shall have a maximum floor area of 700 square feet."
    4. Mr. Fish, 455 West Kemper, said I just purchased the property. I apologize for not having a print. I talked with someone in the office about what I need to do to get the variance. Iíve been busy on the road and I have a builder who is going to do an addition to the house and the garage. The reason I am here today is that the builders said they would like to pour the concrete for the garage at the same time that they do the footers on the addition of the house. I have noticed three new garages here on Kemper and I would like to build one similar to one of the three. I would like for it to match the new addition.

      Mr. Lohbeck said 455 West Kemper Road requested a variance to construct an oversize garage. The applicant has requested a variance to construct a 30í x 40í detached garage, 1200 square feet, on the above referenced property. The Zoning Code 153.075(B) allows up to a maximum 700 square foot garage. The footprint of the proposed garage will be larger than the footprint of the existing residence on the property, approximately 30í x 30í or 900 square feet. The applicant lives at a different address than the referenced property. Will the applicant be moving into the residence? In other words, will the garage be an accessory use benefiting the resident on the property. Although this does not factor into the question of how the use impacts the adjacent properties or community, it does speak to the question of hardship. If it is not the intention of the owner to reside on the property, then the use becomes an off-site storage facility for the ownerís many vehicles.

      Mr. Okum asked is this your residence?

      Mr. Fish replied yes, weíve been in it for a week now. The reason for the garage being so big is that I have a boat, classic car, classic bikes, RV and I do not want them out in the yard. I want them inside, not visible from the street. At my other residence I had to put the boat in the carport and store the RV off-site. Iíd rather keep it all on my property inside where you canít see it.

      Mr. Squires asked you do intend to reside there?

      Mr. Fish replied I was born in Springdale. I lived in Springdale for seven years. I have been looking to buy property in Springdale for the last two years to build because I have a bigger family now. I plan on retiring here in Springdale.

      Mr. Squires said those are extremely deep lots on Kemper. How deep is that property?

      Mr. Fish replied 550 feet. Itís over one and a half acres.

      Mr. Apke said you said you were thinking about building an addition to the house. Do you think you will need any variances to go with that?

      Mr. Fish responded I donít think so. The house is a two-bedroom brick ranch. I need at least two more bedrooms. I donít know if I need a variance or not.

      Mr. Apke said I didnít know if maybe you wanted to withdraw this and submit an entire package.

      Mr. Fish said I think I was told that I wouldnít need a variance for the addition.

      Mr. Weidlich asked which direction are you going from the house?

      Mr. Fish replied initially we were going to go out the side but when I talked to the builder we decided to bring it out the back where you canít see it from the road.

      Mr. Weidlich said your garage is going to be real visible from the street.

      Mr. Fish said not with the trees blocking it.

      Mr. Okum asked Mr. Lohbeck, the addition of this garage would require asphalt or cement surface added to where? He currently has a gravel driveway. Is iy the additional space?

      Mr. Lohbeck replied itís the whole driveway.

      Mr. Okum asked Mr. Fish, do you understand that itís your whole driveway?

      Mr. Fish replied yes. I didnít know you could do asphalt in Springdale. I havenít talked to the builders yet on the cost of everything but I canít have a gravel driveway going into a new garage and new addition.

      Mr. Okum asked how far back from the street would this building be?

      Mr. Fish replied at least 250 to 350 feet.

      Mr. Okum asked would you remove the storage shed currently on the property?

      Mr. Fish answered I hadnít planned to remove it because it is in the back of the yard.

      Mr. Okum replied you can see it from the neighborís yard. Can you see the garage from the neighborís yard?

      Mr. Fish replied Iím sure you can see it but Iím putting trees along the back anyway.

      Ms. Pollitt said the front of your house faces Kemper Road. Where is your new addition going to be built?

      Mr. Fish replied straight off the back with a new entry going into the new addition. There will be a porch wrapped around the new addition all the way around to the existing porch where you go into the house.

      Ms. Pollitt said the garage you are proposing would be to the right of the house.

      Mr. Fish replied yes, as you walk out of the house you are walking down into the garage.

      Ms. Pollitt said so you would be able to see that from your driveway.

      Mr. Fish said Iím not sure because the trees are so big in front of the house.

      Ms. Pollitt said your house is not set in the center of the lot.

      Mr. Fish replied the house is to the left and the garage will be to the right. When I pull into the driveway I canít see that area where the garage is going to be.

      Ms. Pollitt asked what is at the back of your property?

      Mr. Fish answered itís an open field. The neighbor has the adjacent two acres that join in and go across my property next to the church.

      Mr. Weidlich asked what materials would you be using on the exterior of the garage?

      Mr. Fish said Iím waiting on the builder. I would assume studded walls and vinyl to match the new addition with matching roof.

      Mr. Weidlich asked what kind of doors?

      Mr. Fish responded they would be regular garage doors, one oversized and one standard.

      Mr. Okum asked Mr. Fish, if you were not granted this variance what would you do?

      Mr. Fish replied I donít know. I donít want the boat, bikes, car outside. The bikeís never been outside and right now itís sitting outside covered up. I donít want this stuff sitting in the garage looking hideous. If I donít get it the vehicles will be sitting in the yard. Thatís up to the code of Springdale but I donít want that. Iíd rather have them indoors. They are worth a lot of money. Thatís why I plan on spending a lot of money to make it look right.

      Mr. Okum said we currently have some large, three-car garages on Kemper Road. This is very deep but itís 40 feet across the front. The drawing you submitted showed a 24-foot overhead door. You probably meant 16 foot. Youíd probably have a 16 foot and 10 foot door. Would you have an access door in the front of the building as well?

      Mr. Fish replied a side door. The reason for the oversize door is to be able to get the boat in there and leave it there.

      Mr. Okum said the difficulty I see is when you get down to the hardship. You do have a lot of things and a two acre site, but weíre talking a variance for a structure. It could be metal sided, a pole barn, any type of structure, based on what we have been presented. I think the adjacent property owner, the church, is going to have a clear view of the structure that is built there. I have some concerns about that. I also feel that once you calculate all the costs associated with this, there may be some adjustments youíll need to make in what building materials you use. I believe the issue came up of the asphalt or concrete driveway, which Iím sure you hadnít calculated on.

      Mr. Fish stated I am going to spend the money because this is my retirement home.

      Mr. Okum said I would hate to intertwine the potential addition and how itís going to affect the garage because that addition is not on the table. Thereís no variance that has been requested for the addition. Whether he builds an addition or not should not be part of our deliberations. It should be strictly on the use and the need for a 40 foot by 30 foot garage and how that impacts the adjacent property owners and sets a precedent for other situations. This is rare. A two-acre site is rare. We have to take that into consideration. Iím open to discussion from the board members in this regard. I guess if you were to narrow it down, two garage doors at 26 feet and 40 feet across the front. Then we have the whole other side of the garage that will be viewed by everybody to the east of there. I think there are some issues to deal with. I am glad you placed it in that location on your site but I donít think the variance would hold to you placing it anywhere on your site. Is that correct, Mr. Lohbeck? If he decided he wanted to put it on the east side he could.

      Mr. Lohbeck replied thatís correct.

      Ms. Pollitt said I can appreciate you wanting to get your concrete prices in line. Would you be agreeable to constraints that the board might place on the variance such as location, the building materials, screening in the form of landscaping so it would not be so visible from the church area.

      Mr. Fish responded I didnít know either until I went to Thriftway that you could see that back yard. Thatís why I do want to put trees in.

      Mr. Borden asked Mr. Lohbeck, do we have any angle shots of the property?

      Mr. Lohbeck said no.

      Mr. Borden asked how big a boat do you have and RV?

      Mr. Fish said the boat is 25 feet and the RV 28 feet.

      Mr. Borden asked would that be in the garage also?

      Mr. Fish said I think I will keep that off-site because itís not all going to fit with the bikes, the classic car and the vehicles I drive every day. I donít want anything sitting outside.

      Mr. Borden asked could you also put your lawn equipment in there?

      Mr. Fish replied I probably could in the back. Thatís why the shed was back there, to keep it separate. You have to have a riding lawn mower to keep up that back yard.

      Mr. Borden asked since this is such a large structure and we are looking at over 500 square feet above what we normally would allow, would you be agreeable to eliminating the shed if we approve the variance"

      Mr. Fish answered Iíd have no problem with that because it would give me plenty of room. Iíd probably have to put a door off the back of the garage to get the lawn equipment out.

      Mrs. Huber asked do you currently have a garage underneath the house?

      Mr. Fish replied you canít get a car in it. Right now itís a storage area.

      Mrs. Huber asked would that become part of your proposed addition to your residence?

      Mr. Fish replied thatís getting sealed off and turned into an office/play area. Itís not going to be a garage.

      Mr. Okum said I believe our typical screening standards for development in the City is 10 foot evergreens.

      Mr. Lohbeck said itís 15 to 20 feet on center.

      Mr. Okum said if the applicant is willing to take care of some screening areas I would be more prone to make an approval of it.

      Mr. Apke said there is a 4-prong test weíre supposed to do before we grant any variance. The first one is exceptional circumstances or extraordinary circumstances. With the size of the site alone I think you meet that condition. Another one is granting a variance will not be a detriment to adjacent properties or impair the public interest. I think you are okay there. The variance is not of a general or recurrent nature. This is definitely a unique situation. The one I am wrestling with is that it is necessary for the preservation and enjoyment as enjoyed by other projects in the same district. I understand that you have a lot of things that you need to store and I understand why you want to store them on your property. Iím wrestling with whether we should grant this so you can have it. Iím not sure which way Iím ready to go yet.

      Mr. Borden asked if this is granted, is there an issue with two garages on the site?

      Mr. Lohbeck answered he doesnít really have two garages.

      Mr. Fish stated itís built underneath the house. Itís like a garage door but itís underneath the kitchen. Mr. Fish said I donít think it was a garage. I canít get a car in it.

      Mr. Lohbeck said if itís there, yes it is a garage but he can close it off and have the other garage. We donít consider that a garage. He can close it off and make it a storage room.

      Mr. Borden said the question is if that is a garage and he builds a second garage, would that be an issue?

      Mr. Lohbeck replied it depends on how he comes in with his drawings. If heís taking it out like he says he is, itís only a storage area. Mr. Okum said you could have a patio door in that space and it wouldnít be a garage. Itís got a garage door but I donít think it would conform to any of our building regulations. Part of the old Cape Cods had a drive under garage opening. They usually had a 7 foot high door and 7 foot 3 inch ceiling. You have a very narrow space to navigate a vehicle into.

      Mr. Okum said the question is could he continue to use the under-the-house space as a garage for a vehicle?

      Mr. Lohbeck said not if he puts the room addition on. If you canít get a car in there I donít know how you can consider it a garage. I donít know how wide it is.

      Ms. Pollitt said I donít have a problem given the lot size of requesting that the board grant him a variance for a 30í x 40í detached garage with some existing circumstances that you would need to meet. One of those would be to close off the existing garage when you make your room addition, screen three sides of your new garage, remove your existing shed and use quality workmanship materials that will blend in with the construction of the house as well as the new construction you are going to be doing and also put down a blacktop or cement driveway.

      Mr. Okum said seven to eight evergreens to surround.

      Mr. Squires seconded the motion.

      Mr. Okum said the motion is for a variance for a 30í x 40í garage that will be screened on three sides with ten foot evergreens 15 feet on center and that the garage be finished on all four sides with similar residential building materials similar to those on the home, a permanent concrete or asphalt surface be constructed and the existing garage under the home be vacated and not used as a garage and the existing shed shall be removed.

      Mr. Borden said I guess the garage doors would face Kemper Road.

      Mr. Fish said yes.

      The variance was granted with conditions with seven affirmative votes.

      Chris Shaver, 269 West Kemper Road

    5. Chris Shaver, 269 West Kemper Road requests variance to allow the construction of a room addition (garage and living space). Said variance is requested from Section 153.075(B) "The garage shall have a maximum floor area of 700 square feet."
    6. Chris Shaver said I would like to put an addition onto my house with living quarters above and a four-car garage below. I have an existing very small one-car garage that I would tear down. I need this garage space and living space. Above the garage I would put a master bedroom along with a master bath, walk-in closet. Itís a four bedroom house now but all the rooms are small. I would lose one of the bedrooms when I add on to the house to make the entrance upstairs to the new addition. Between me and my dad we have six classic cars and we need the space.

      Mr. Lohbeck said at 269 West Kemper Road, the applicant is requesting a variance to construct a two-story addition to his residence which includes a 26í x 65í garage on the first floor, 1690 square feet. Section 153.075 (B) permits up to a maximum 700 square foot garage. The proposed setbacks meet Zoning Code requirements. The applicant is proposing to remove the existing detached garage. The proposed garage is a four plus car garage and has an area equal to both floors of the existing one and a half story residence.

      Ms. Pollitt said tell me how this proposed new garage and addition is going to be constructed on your property. I see the garage in the back and your driveway.

      Mr. Shaver replied it will be perpendicular to Kemper Road off the west corner. In response to Ms. Pollitt, Mr. Shaver said the driveway would stay where itís at and circle around the back of the house. All four doors would be facing east.

      Ms. Pollitt asked how long will the west wall be? Sixty-five feet plus whatever you have already.

      Mr. Shaver responded the original house is 25í x 40í.

      Ms. Pollitt asked are you planning to use brick veneer on all sides. Thatís a huge garage. Your property is extremely deep. Do you know how deep it is?

      Mr. Shaver replied it is 80í by 460í. Itís almost an acre.

      Ms. Pollitt asked do you have any other buildings on the lot now? Mr. Shaver replied just the one that is there now.

      Ms. Pollitt asked what kind of screening do you have on the right and left? Mr. Shaver replied none. I have a fence that runs halfback back of my house all the way back on the west side. There are a couple of trees there.

      Ms. Pollitt asked is the addition basically for the living space or garage? Mr. Shaver replied both. Ms. Pollitt asked what size master bedroom are you putting up there? Mr. Shaver replied I havenít really figured that out. It will be a master bedroom with a walk-in shower. Right now I have two full baths. Thereís one downstairs and one on the first floor. Upstairs thereís no full bath.

      Ms. Pollitt asked are you planning to use the entire upper level of the garage for living space? Mr. Shaver answered it depends. Ms. Pollitt asked what would you use it for if not for living space? Mr. Shaver replied storage, maybe have a door in the back. My dad and I own a garage and we have classic cars, car parts. We can always use storage.

      Ms. Pollitt asked do plan on working out of the garage? Mr. Shaver replied no, there would be no reason to.

      Mr. Weidlich said the part of the new addition that butts up to your house is a pretty big area and looks like you could almost fit another garage door there. What is the plan for that area?

      Mr. Shaver replied 10 feet of that will be for a work area, work bench, storage, furnace for the upstairs. I believe I will need a separate furnace for that upstairs because the top part now is cold in the wintertime and hot in the summer.

      Mr. Weidlich asked to get into the new addition do you have to go into this area and up the stairs?

      Mr. Shaver stated that back corner is a bedroom. We will knock a hole in the wall and go through there. Seven feet of that will be stairway.

      Mr. Weidlich asked where do you currently have these six cars? Mr. Shaver responded I have one in my garage now. We have two or three at our shop and my dad has two or three at his house.

      Mr. Weidlich asked are they outside at his place? Is that why you want to bring them over here? Mr. Shaver answered he has a three-car garage at his residence and thereís just no room. Thatís part of the reason when I was looking for a house that we bought this place so we can add on. I have no reason to do work here. Ití gets dirty and we have a garage.

      Mr. Weidlich said I notice the peak of this garage addition is 12-18 inches above the current house. Is that planned or can it come down and be level with the house?

      Mr. Shaver said a friend of my is building it. He made the drawing. I thought it was supposed to be with the top of the house. I donít know why we couldnít.

      Mr. Okum said the minimum height requirements are different now than when the house was originally built. You have to have 7 feet high ceiling space so that may push that up, especially if you are carrying load. They would probably want to have 8 foot ceilings.

      Mr. Squires said Mr. Lohbeck, we are facing a variance only for the garage and yet weíre hearing testimony that part of that upper portion may be used for living space. We donít deal with that, do we?

      Mr. Lohbeck replied just the garage. He doesnít need a variance for the living quarters.

      Mr. Okum said if my calculations are right, that space between the rear of the house and the first garage door will be about twenty feet.

      Mr. Shaver said he told me there would be 7.5 feet for the stairs. I wanted like a ten foot area for bicycles, whatever.

      Mr. Okum said I dropped in 9 foot garage doors, 3 feet at the end, 2 feet between the doors. Mr. Shaver said they are 10 foot doors. The distance would be 17 feet.

      Mr. Okum said I donít have a major problem with a three-car garage there. A three-car garage with that 17 foot space is still a pretty significant addition. You are using a brick veneer which I think the board would be encouraged by. I just have a real problem with going 65 feet back. I could justify the three-car plus work area issue.

      Mr. Shaver said if I build it I want a four-car garage.

      Mr. Okum said I donít know of any other four-car garage in Springdale. Mr. Shaver said it sounds big but when you look at the property, I have another 60í x 300 feet of grass.

      Mr. Okum said the entire space between the garage and existing residence is to be a concrete patio. You would have to have a turning radius for the car so you definitely would have that entire area from the garage almost to the property line would be asphalt or concrete surface.

      Mr. Borden said that entire back area would be paved over. Mr. Shaver said between the house and the first garage would be grass. The first garage door will be two or three feet from a walnut tree.

      Mr. Borden said we just approved a three-car garage on a bigger lot. Your lot is smaller but youíre asking for more space. Mr. Lohbeck, you said there are no setback issues. Mr. Lohbeck replied that is correct.

      Mr. Apke asked could you tell me how many cars you have there? Mr. Shaver replied I have two classic cars, two cars that my girlfriend and I drive. My dad has four classic cars, one heís had since it was new and we plan to redo it this winter. Thereís no sense in redoing it if we donít have a place to put it.

      Mr. Apke said the width of the garage is 26 feet. You can park two in each bay. Mr. Shaver said one with room to get around it. Mr. Apke said you are proposing to park four cars in this garage.

      Ms. Pollitt said I like the idea that you are using the brick veneer and roofing to pull it all together with the existing house. Is there anything that can be done on the west elevation? Youíve got two windows back there that will make it blend in a little more than it is right now. I come from a family that is car crazy and boat crazy and I know that they like to have everything under storage. We bought a farm in Pendleton County for that purpose. Is there any way your builder could change the windows or add more windows to make it fit in better?


      Mr. Shaver stated there are a lot of things we can do on that side. I really donít want windows on my garage. I could put a couple of dormers on top.

      Ms. Pollitt said if you had a total expanse of brick that would be a lot of brick. I can understand the security issues too.

      Mr. Shaver said if I have to that would be fine. I could always secure the windows.

      Ms. Pollitt asked landscaping wouldnít be a problem? Mr. Shaver said there are only ten feet there. I donít know what I could put there.

      Ms. Pollitt asked what about the neighbor to the east? Will any of their living space be impacted by this garage?

      Mr. Shaver replied their patio is out there but itís out there now.

      Ms. Pollitt said Iíd like to see some kind of a compromise worked out. I appreciate what you are doing. It would be a nice addition to your home and you have a large enough lot. Does the board have any suggestions on how we can do that?

      Mr. Okum said I have a hard time with a four-car garage, storage area and work room. We have a lot of people with nearly an acre lot. This is probably the biggest request for space we have had. I think it would really be stretching the precedent level of approving a four-car garage plus storage area. I hear what the applicant is saying but the purpose of the right of the property is more for personal use than the necessity of using it to store vehicles. If we say you currently have six cars, you only have a four car garage. You could add more cars. If you accumulate more interest we could end up with a real tough situation to deal with. Is 65 feet a big enough garage? Maybe we should add another 20 feet. I have a real hard time pushing this envelope to this size garage. I think 1690 square feet is extraordinary. Iím very encouraged by expanding the living space of your home but Iím not encouraged by the visible area of the back yard being an impervious surface.

      Mrs. Huber asked do you know the size of the building on the property next to you? Mr. Shaver said that garage is probably 25í x 40í. He stores four cars in his garage. If that was all living space would I need a variance for that? Mr. Okum said no. Mr. Shaver said nobodyís going to know itís a garage except one neighbor and maybe one neighbor down.

      Mr. Borden asked what borders your property? Mr. Shaver replied to the east is a residence, to the west is a residence and to the back is Olde Gate condominiums.

      Mr. Borden said the neighbors to the west could go out and look across your property but they could not if that garage is there. What about the neighbors to the east? Mr. Shaver replied there are about 20 feet between my garage and my house. My house is even with his house. Mr. Borden said he also has an unobstructed view that would be gone with the proposed garage.

      Mrs. Pollitt said Iím still looking for a compromise here. Since the board would have a problem with the four bays, would you consider making the garage wider than the 26 feet so that you could house more than one car in each garage door?

      Mr. Shaver responded thatís not possible. Thirteen feet will be beyond my house and thirteen feet in. The thirteen feet would be four feet from my basement.

      Ms. Pollitt said you have the ten feet there and one garage door. Could you then bump out two garage doors to make it more L-shaped to put more cars in there in a shorter space?

      Mr. Shaver said I really didnít think about that but that would obstruct my view of my back yard.

      Ms. Pollitt said I was trying to figure out a way that you can get what you need and the board can also be satisfied with what they are giving you.

      Mr. Weidlich asked are you not willing to knock one bay off of this garage?

      Mr. Shaver said I donít want to. I designed it this way. I thought initially three. I want an attached garage.

      Mr. Weidlich said I agree with you there. Iím just talking about taking one door off. This is a huge precedent. You probably wonít find any four-car garages in Springdale.

      Mr. Shaver said thereís probably not a garage with four doors, but there are four-car garages.

      Mr. Weidlich said we have to be careful about setting a precedent.

      Mr. Shaver said I really want four separate doors.

      Mr. Weidlich said so you donít want to compromise. Mr. Shaver replied I donít want to.

      Mr. Okum said I canít express all the views of the board but at this point I donít hear a majority thatís going to be voting in favor of the request. Instead of it being turned down you have the opportunity to have it tabled or withdrawn and a chance to get back with your architect and evaluate some of the things that have been mentioned in the meeting. Otherwise it becomes a dead issue and you could possibly be denied. There are things like increasing the depth on two of the bays and not the first. That way you could get your storage space and not be 65 feet deep or obstruct your entire back yard.

      Mr. Shaver said I would have to add 12 feet to that which would bring it past the entrance to the back of my house. I wonít do that.

      Mr. Borden asked is it your goal to have four bays or four cars in a garage?

      Mr. Shaver replied for convenience purposes I want four doors. There will be four cars that are drivable. It would be nice to be able to hit a garage door opener, get in a car and go.

      Mr. Okum asked have you considered lift systems? Mr. Shaver replied no. I thought about it if I cut back on the depth of it, it cuts back on my bathroom, walk-in closet.

      Mr. Apke made a motion to deny the variance for an addition to the residence at 269 West Kemper Road including a 26í x 65í garage. Mr. Borden seconded.

      Mrs. Huber said Mr. Shaver is a personal friend so I have not said a word and will not be voting but he knows my feelings.

      Mrs. Pollitt said Iím back to compromise again. Is there any way we can ask the applicant if he would consider tabling this. If we deny him on this itís six months before you are able to review this again and I would hate to have that happen to you. Iíd like to see you go back to the drawing board and see if there isnít something you can do, change it to a three-bay garage. I think a three-bay garage would be more acceptable to the board.

      Mr. Shaver asked what is the process if itís denied? Mr. Okum replied you can wait six months and submit a different request. You could submit with 100 feet difference. You do have the option to go before the Court of Common Pleas to appeal our decision or you could resubmit a different plan.

      Mr. Shaver asked what is the big problem?

      Mr. Squires asked could you do the same thing you want to do with two 16 foot doors?

      Mr. Okum replied that wouldnít change the size of the building.

      Mr. Squires said the big problem with me is the four-car garage, to set a precedent with that. This is a smaller lot than we dealt with with the previous resident. There are other three-car garages on Kemper but there are no four-car garages anywhere. The variance goes with the land.

      Mr. Apke said I feel bad about making a motion to deny. We try to work with people as much as we can but there are a couple of issues with this for me personally. One is the four-car garage. The biggest issue for me is the fact that when we set a precedent then the next person says you gave it to that person, you have to give it to me. I have even more of a problem with the square footage at 1690 square feet, which is 141% over code. We gave the other guy 25% over code. This is 141%. Once we do that, it is in the record and becomes precedent. Even though we are not a court of law we kind of function that way.

      Mr. Shaver said so if it was 40í x 40í and two deep, double up, itís the same square feet, just different dimensions. Weíre going 2.5 times what is allowed. Thatís very difficult for me.

      Mr. Shaver said if it wasnít a garage I wouldnít even have to be here.

      Mr. Okum stated if it was a room addition with a 700 foot garage on that room addition, you wouldnít be before this board.

      Mr. Shaver said I thatís what I donít understand.

      Mr. Okum says the Code establishes that functionality to be used. The use of that land is a residential use. That use is not a garage; itís a residence. Itís primary purpose is for living and not storing of vehicles. You certainly are establishing a precedent and I think Mr. Apke spoke to it quite accurately. Anyone with a .999 acre parcel in Springdale who wanted to put up a 65 foot by 26 foot, or 40 foot by 40 foot garage on their property would be given that precedence. It doesnít matter what restrictions there are itís still a 1690 square foot garage. We have to look at some circumstances that are a little bit different than 1690. You gave a template of a floor plan for a 16 x 90 garage. If there was a wall separating part of this garage where that 17 feet was and that was living or usable space for a workshop, I believe that would fall differently in the Zoning Codeís eyes and that would lower your number down. When you talked about the staircase It was hard for me to understand that because you submitted a 26 foot by 65 foot garage. In any case, take the 17 feet off, weíre still talking 49 foot by 26 foot garage. Thatís still very large in the City of Springdale. It was be very difficult for us to tell another applicant who wants to build a four-car garage on their property no when we have given this applicant the latitude to do that, unless there were extreme circumstances that made you different from anybody else who had a .999 acre site in the City of Springdale. Thereís nothing that I find extraordinary.

      Mr. Shaver asked could I put my living quarters, a smaller garage and go in my back yard and build a 30í x 40í like he wants to. Iím trying to figure out what I can do to do what I want. I need a four-car garage. Thatís what I want. Thatís what I need.

      Mr. Okum said you currently have a one-car garage. You are allowed by Code a 700 foot detached garage. There have been variances granted to a 700 foot garage.

      Mr. Shaver asked can I add on to my house the garage and living quarters above up, then add another garage?

      Mr. Lohbeck said you can have a garage 700 square feet. If you want to build another one you would need a variance.

      Mr. Shaver said I could possibly come out in the long run with more than a four-car garage.

      Mr. Okum responded it would be at the boardís discretion as to whether they would approve that garage space at that site for the square footage you would be requesting. This evening you saw a shed vacated on the site in order to build a 1200 square foot garage.

      Mr. Shaver asked would they count the garage on the house towards the garage in the back as all one thing if there were two garages?

      Mr. Okum replied I think the question would come up as to what is garage space. I canít say how that would be deliberated on.

      Mr. Shaver asked to withdraw his request. The motion to deny was withdrawn.

      Eric Slater, 1348 Castro-Circlefield


    7. Eric Slater, 1348 Castro-Circlefield requests a variance to allow a 12í x 3í swimming pool to remain in his side yard. Said variance is requested from Section 153.488(C )(1) ". . . shall not be located in any front yard or side yard and shall be located 15 feet from the rear or side lot line."

    Mr. Slater said I have nothing but side yard because itís a corner yard. The back yard is about 8 feet deep from the back of the house. The other side yard is outside the fenced area. I donít have any other place to put it. My kids love it and want to keep it.

    Mr. Lohbeck said the request for 13458 Castro-Circlefield is for a variance to allow a 12í x 3í above-ground swimming pool less than 15 feet from the side lot line. The pool is 12 feet six inches from the lot line. The pool was installed without a permit. The property is a corner lot and the rear yard is only nine feet deep under a variance granted by City Council on 11/23/60 by Resolution R14-1960. The pool will not fit in the rear yard. The pool appears to be approximately 20 feet from the rear property line.

    Mr. Borden asked would a temporary variance be in order since itís such a small pool and the season is just about over and you will be taking it down.

    Mr. Slater said I plan on putting it up again next spring.

    Mr. Apke said there are two variances required, one for the side yard and one that it is less than 15 feet from the lot line.

    Mr. Lohbeck said there is only one. Mr. Apke said the one less than 15 feet from the lot line.

    Mr. Apke asked how long have you been a resident? Mr. Slater replied since 1996. Mr. Apke asked do you have any plans to move? Mr. Slater replied no.

    Mr. Apke said I like Mr. Bordenís idea of a temporary variance. I like the idea of allowing it from mid May to mid September for five years.

    Mr. Slater stated that sounds reasonable. Iím hoping in five years theyíll outgrow it.

    Mr. Okum said we have allowed conditional variances to allow things that occur on a regular basis. This is a little unique but I think weíve done it with motor homes and accessory businesses. I think itís probably a good idea, Mr. Apke, because it will put us in a position that if someone else takes the property and wants to put in a different pool it would be a permanent issue.

    Ms. Pollitt asked what is the life of the pool. Mr. Slater said itís got a replaceable liner but if I take care of it, it could be 10 or 15 years.

    Mr. Apke asked what are the ages of the children? Mr. Slater replied 5 and 10.

    Mr. Apke made a motion to grant Mr. Slaterís request for 1348 Castro-Circlefield allowing an above-ground swimming pool in the side yard less than 15 feet from the side lot line conditional upon it being allowed between 15 May and 15 September and conditional upon the pool being taken down at the end of the season to run for a period of five years starting next year. Mr. Borden seconded. The motion passed with seven affirmative votes.

  5. Mr. Okum said we granted a variance for The Beeper Store allowing a canopy. A condition of the variance was that the permanent pole sign be removed.

    Mr. Lohbeck said they took down the canopy and they moved out.

    Mr. Borden said we got correspondence from the Regional Planning Commission. Is Springdale still offering to pay for our training here?

    Mr. Okum replied I believe it is in the budget.

  6. The meeting adjourned at 9:00 p.m.


Respectfully submitted,



_______________, 2002 ______________________________

David Okum, Chairman




_______________, 2002 _______________________________

Jane Huber, Secretary