18 MAY 1999

7:00 P.M.





The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. by Chairman James Squires.


Members Present: David Okum, Councilman Robert Wilson, Thomas Schecker, Councilwoman Kathy McNear, David Whitaker, James Squires and Barbara Ewing

Others Present: Richard G. Lohbeck, Inspections Supervisor


Mr. Okum moved for adoption and Mr. Schecker seconded the motion. By

voice vote, all voted aye, and the Minutes were adopted with seven affirmative



    1. Zoning Bulletin Ė April 10, 1999
    2. Zoning Bulletin Ė April 25, 1999
    3. Zoning Bulletin Ė May 10, 1999
    4. Planning Commission Meeting Minutes Ė April 13, 1999
    1. Report on Council Activities Ė Kathy McNear Ė No Report
    2. Report on Planning Commission Ė David Okum

Mr. Okum said I donít have my agenda with me, but Planning considered an expansion for Enterprise Rent A Car, which was denied by six votes.


    1. A variance once granted will be referred back to the Board of Zoning Appeals if after the expiration of six months no construction is done in accordance with the terms and conditions of the variance.

If a variance appeal is denied, the applicant may resubmit the appeal six months after the denial.

B. Chairmanís Statement

Ladies and gentlemen, this is a Public hearing, and all testimony given in cases pending before this board are to be made part of the public record. As such, each citizen testifying before this board is directed to sign in, take his place at the podium, and state his name address and the nature of the variances. Be advised that all testimony and discussion relative to said variance is recorded. It is from this recording that our minutes are taken.










18 MAY 1999



    1. Irvin Ziegler, 870 Cedarhill Drive requests variance to allow the construction of an additional garage with no driveway at his residence. Said variance is requested from Section 153.023(F) "..shall have 2 or more car garage..not less than 400 s.f. and not more than 600 s.f." and Section 153.128(A)(1) "Parking areas and driveways shall be improved with asphaltic, concrete or cement pavementÖ"

Mr. Ziegler stated I would like to put up a 16í x 34í Dutch barn in my back yard to house my antique automobiles. I have a 1934 Ford that I take out two or three times a year for parades and weddings and Iíd like to store it on my property and also use that facility for lawnmowers and other equipment besides the car.

Mr. Squires asked about his not having a driveway to this garage, and Mr. Ziegler responded that I only take this vehicle out three or four times a year to show in parades or car shows. Mr. Squires added there is a tree in the front and a fireplug, and I was a little concerned about negotiating the vehicle. Mr. Ziegler answered I have enough room to negotiate it between the Bradford pear and the house. I have had it in the back yard to wash it a number of times, so that is not a concern. Mr. Squires continued what about during the snowy months. Mr. Ziegler answered it doesnít come out if it rains or snows; it comes out for the 4th of July and my daughterís wedding. It is a warm weather car.

Mr. Squires wondered how many antique vehicles he would be storing in the garage. Mr. Ziegler answered I have one and I am looking to get a í37 Ford Roadster. Also I will put my lawnmower and garden equipment in there.

Mr. Squires asked the size of the yard, and Mr. Ziegler answered the building will be 40 feet from the lot line on the right side, 42 or 43 feet from the left side, 40 feet back from my house and about 30 feet from the rear property line.

Mr. Wilson asked where the 1934 Ford is stored now, and Mr. Ziegler answered right in my garage. Mr. Wilson wondered the type of repairs would be needed on an older c0ar like this, and Mr. Ziegler answered the car is completely restored; it is a show car. He showed a picture of the car. Mr. Wilson said it would be tight going between you and 874 ; you almost would have to make an ess to go around it. Mr. Ziegler stated I intend to move the vehicle facing the house on the right side next to my Bradford pear. Mr. .Wilson commented if you do that, you will have to trim the tree back. Mr. Ziegler said I can do that; itís not a large car.

Mr. Wilson wondered if he would have two vehicles, and Mr. Ziegler answered potentially, if I find another one and the price is right. Mr. Wilson wondered if he would be able to get two vehicles in, and Mr. Ziegler said he would because these vehicles are shorter cars than normal cars.

Mr. Schecker asked the elevation of the barn and Mr. Ziegler answered 12 Ĺ or 13 feet. Mr. Schecker continued this will be a pretty massive structure when you put that in the middle of the back yard. Mr. Ziegler said that is a third of an acre back there. You are right; I should put some kind of bushes around it.




18 MAY 1999



Mr. Okum said I did observe that the residents at 12075 and 12085 Elkridge have been notified. Are these the owners of those homes? Mr. Ziegler answered they are the owners.

Mr. Okum continued I have a problem with this size of a shed on any lot in Springdale. This is a fairly massive structure lengthwise. I understand that these people have been notified, but we have to consider that these people might not be there for the next 30 years that your barn is there and that is the view from their rear yard. I would be concerned about the size of the trees. Mr. Ziegler added there are trees on two corners, but are you recommending that I put something closer to the building? I centered it so I wouldnít put it next to anybodyís property line.

Mr. Okum asked if there would be concrete floor and Mr. Ziegler answered there are two ways to do it. The contractor recommended a wooden floor on three inches of crushed gravel. I talked to your building people and they recommended I put a concrete slab. I think with that size the concrete would be appropriate.

Mr. Wilson commented maybe we need to look at this a little closer. You are talking 424 s.f. over the allotted square footage. Would you consider a smaller unit? Mr. Ziegler answered if I made the unit smaller, I couldnít get another vehicle in there. How much smaller is smaller? Mr. Wilson responded your garage is already here and you are in effect asking for an additional garage. If we could work around the equivalent square footage for a one-car garage maybe that would apply. At this point, we are not going anywhere, and Iím trying to get things going. Mr. Ziegler said so if we go from 34í to 30í it might be possible? It has to be 16 feet wide to be able to get the vehicle in the front of it.

Mr. Wilson commented it looks like 16í x 16í would be in compliance. Mr. Ziegler responded the car would not fit in there. I need at least two or three feet at the end of the garage. I think probably something like 16í x 24í would be workable. Mr. Wilson commented that is 384 square feet.

Mr. Okum said we always talk about establishing a precedent, and last week we discussed a storage building 20í x 22í for the Vineyard in a commercial district. We have discussed extending our shed size from 10í x 121í to 12í x 12í or 10í x 16í. It is really difficult and I understand your predicament, but there are 10,000+ residents in the City. If we allowed a 260 s.f. detached building on your lot, the next person coming in will ask for the same thing.

Mr. Ziegler responded it is also 30 to 40 feet from the adjacent property line. It is not like I have a very small lot. I donít disagree with that at all. Possibly if a presentation was brought to us with a design of screening that we know that the impact to adjoining properties would not be in the future affected, that might be a consideration. At this point, I donít see a physical hardship. You have a two-car garage and the code allows you 120 square feet of storage in addition to that. It is difficult for me to say 260 square feet would be approved. I understand your situation; you have a large lot and it probably will be very nice and you will keep it very nice, but the fact is those people living around your home might not be the same people that will be three 10 or 15 years from now. A variance is permanent; it stays with the land forever, and those people who purchase homes around your property, donít have the same opportunity to come before this board and present their opinion.

Mr. Ziegler responded the people that currently live there have no concern about this, and anybody coming in to buy the property would see what was out there and have the option not to purchase the property, so it is not like I am infringing on somebodyís future.


18 MAY 1999



Mr. Squires said I think part of the problem is the structure doesnít look like a garage; it looks like a storage shed. Mr. Ziegler answered that was intentional. I wanted to make it like a little Dutch barn to be pleasing to the neighbors. Iím not going to use it as a garage per se. It is for an antique vehicle and I picked out what I thought was the most pleasing structure I could find. Mr. Squires responded we donít allow storage sheds that large, and the variance goes with your property. Itís a matter of semantics. Mr. Ziegler responded I am sort of at a loss; what are you telling me I should call it? Mr. Squires answered I donít know; it is an out building and it is way out of our variance limits.

Mr. Schecker said I donít agree with the idea of it being semantics; the physical size you are requesting for that property seems disproportionate to all the land use around there. The structure, whether garage or storage building, is simply too big. Once you put that up, it will look like a skyscraper. Mr. Ziegler answered it is 12 Ĺ feet high; itís not a very high structure, but I agree that 34 feet is a long length and is a concern. If we change the length to 24 feet and landscape, would that be an option?

Addressing those in attendance, Mr. Squires asked if anyone present wished to speak for or against this request. No one came forward.

Mrs. McNear commented I believe the largest storage unit we have ever approved a variance for in this neighborhood was 144 square feet. I am concerned about the size. Even though you have a larger lot, that will be very stark against everyone elseís background.

Mr. Okum said at this point and based on the request you have presented, I have no alternative but to vote in opposition to it. You do understand that if you wish to bring it back before the board, there is a six-month wait.

Mr. Ziegler said if I came back in six months and presented a 16í x 24í building with landscaping around it,ÖMr. Okum responded Iím not telling you it would be approved; all I can say is based on what you have requested for the variance, I will be voting no.

Mr. Ziegler continued is it the size? Mr. Okum answered yes, the extreme size over what we have approved in the past and what is part of the building code. The zoning code is established so everyone is treated fairly and evenly throughout the community. It also has this board as an appeals board, so you can have the opportunity to present a hardship to us. I personally donít see a hardship; it is a labor of love, and I understand it. Mr. Ziegler commented it is obviously not a hardship. Where I am is I donít want to waste my time and come back in six months if I canít have something I can put my automobile in.

Mr. Okum said we have given you parameters. There are options to additions to the rear of your home that you could consider. I can only tell you that this is detached structure. There are two choices, you can withdraw or table which would bring it up at the next meeting. The other choice is we vote and you wait six months.

Mr. Ziegler responded what I am looking for is guidance. Will I see the same people in six months? I need to know what is acceptable. Mr. Okum answered acceptable is in the neighborhood of 120 to 144 square feet, and that may not fill your need. That has been the standard, and we have pretty well stuck with that.




18 MAY 1999



Mr. Ziegler so what you are saying is 12í x 12í and I will need to find some other place to store my car. I want a clear definition; you are saying nothing more than 144 square feet, is that correct? Mr. Okum responded that has been pretty consistent, and when that has been granted, it is because there is a hardship. Mr. Ziegler added and if I landscaped around it, that would have no impact. Mr. Okum responded that would soften the issue, because of the appearance and how it would be impacted on the neighborhood.

Mr. Wilson said you indicated you worked on this 1934 Ford for 12 years in your garage. What you are trying to do is to be able to put both vehicles in the garage.

Mr. Ziegler stated I understand your concern and I tried to pick out the most pleasing façade that I could. With a 12í x 12í building, I couldnít get my car in.

Mr. Wilson said Mr. Okum mentioned an extension onto your home. Mr. Ziegler said behind my garage is the family room so the basement is under it and you couldnít push out the back wall.

Mrs. McNear said obviously you couldnít go through your family room. Addressing Mr. Lohbeck, she asked if he could add on to the garage behind that, so you could enter from behind. I donít know if this would be a way to get around it. Mr. Lohbeck said I would like to clarify something also. I keep hearing storage barns, and this is a detached garage. It is not a storage shed. On Mrs. McNearís questions, I will do some research on that. Mr. Ziegler added I donít want to do that; it would be cost prohibitive.

Mr. Wilson added you have a choice here. You can request that we vote realizing the mood of the board. Mr. Ziegler said I am looking for direction. Mr. Wilson said you also could ask that it be tabled and come back next month. We can talk about options; we canít give you suggestions. One option you have already shot down, which is to add on to your existing structure.

Mr. Ziegler said if I added onto my existing structure, I donít think I could get the vehicle in without driving onto my neighborís yard. Mr. Wilson said the only option you probably would have would be to attach it to your family room. Mr. Okum added sort of like a hobby room addition.

From the audience, Mrs. Ziegler added we have been in Springdale for 27 years and we are trying to figure out an option so we would not have to leave this area. We came looking for suggestions

Mr. Lohbeck reported as far as the question on an accessory building or structure, it "shall be located not less than 5 feet from the main building and not less than 20 feet from any dwelling on an adjacent residential lot." It shall not be projected into or be located on a front or side yard and may be located in a rear yard and must not be less than 6 feet from any rear or side lot lines.

Mr. Wilson commented you could have a one-car garage or hobby area behind the family room and attach it so it would not extend past your dwelling line.

Mr. Ziegler wondered what that structure would be called, a garage or covered patio. Mr. Wilson responded you could call it a garage a hobby area. It would have to be an addition to your existing dwelling




18 MAY 1999



Mr. Ziegler said so I could put an addition to my existing dwelling that would go out my back door and into a garage area and call that an addition. So an attached structure to my house is acceptable? Mr. Okum answered as long as it meets code. Mr. Ziegler added you are telling me that I would take this structure and move it up next to my house and that is acceptable. Mr. Okum said if it is attached it is a room addition; if it is detached, it is an accessory structure and you would be limited to 120 s.f. So the direction the Board was referring to may not require a variance if it were an addition that conformed to certain building structure code. I think the Building Department would be more than happy to help you with that.

Mr. Ziegler said then I would want to table this and Iíll go back and talk to a number of people to see how to make a structure adjoining my house. Mr. Okum said the question is do you want to withdraw. If you withdraw you can present it at a later time. Mr. Ziegler answered I might as well withdraw this. I want to make it the least complex I can. Then I can reconsider other options.

Mr. Squires added the Building Department will bend over backwards to help you with it. Mr. Ziegler responded they have been very helpful. Mr. Squires said we donít want to lose you as a resident, and I am confident that something will work out. Mr. Ziegler responded I appreciate your concern about the neighbors, and I was trying to minimize the impact. Maybe this is an alternate solution that would add value to the house, which would probably be better than a detached structure. I appreciate your time.

B. Ms. Toni McAfee, 11831 Glenfalls Court requests variance to operate a Day Care Center at 740 West Kemper Road. Said variances is requested from Section 153.029(c) (1)(2)(4)(5) "..not occupy more than 25% of the floor area of the builidng..Only members of the family residing within the dwelling shall work.." " signs shall be employed other than a nameplate not more than 2 square feet in area.."number of vehicles..shall not exceed 2 at any one time.."

Ms. McAfee said I wish to have a day care center at 740 West Kemper

Road. Mr. Squires wondered if she had bought the property yet, and Ms.

McAfee indicated that she hadnít, adding that she put a contract on it. I am in kind of a bind, because the owners are elderly people who live out of town and want me to purchase this property before I do childcare there. They are aware that I am requesting to do childcare; it is in the letter, but I havenít received their signature back yet.

Mr. Okum said our code requires that the legal owner or authorized agent be requesting a variance. It would be inappropriate for us to consider this without her being the legal representative of the property owner. She is not the deed holder or owner of the property.

Mr. Wilson responded while I agree with Mr. Okum, I think we can give our resident some direction or some options as to if she were the owner, this is what would be required. It may be that once she finds out what is required, she might elect not to purchase this property. Maybe we can devote a few minutes to giving her some suggestions. Having gone out to the site this afternoon, I have some suggestions, and I am sure that some of you have some thoughts. Perhaps we can share them with her and this will determine whether she wants to proceed or not. She still would have to come back once she is the owner.

Mr. Squires said in the opinion of the chair, I donít think we can do this. This lady doesnít own the property and for us to give directions may be illegal.


18 MAY 1999



Ms. McAfee reported we are in the process of trying to purchase it, but I certainly donít want to purchase this property if I cannot provide childcare. It seems like Iím in kind of a bind.

Ms. McNear said I concur with Mr. Okum. I feel badly for you because I know you are trying to complete the contract and get a business set up. However, we have had this happen any times where the property owner has not been present and we did not proceed because we cannot do it.

Addressing the applicant, Mr. Squires said this board just cannot act on this unless you were the property owner or if the property owner were present for this request. I sympathize with Mr. Wilson who wants to give you some guidance on it, but we canít even do that. The opinion of the chair is we canít act on it. The record should show that the applicant is not the property owner and the board cannot act on this at this time.

Once you obtain ownership of the property, you may come back to us. I do notice that you are properly licensed. Are there guidelines as to what will be required in terms of space, storage facilities, number of toilets etc.

Ms. McAfee answered I need 35 s.f. per child. My request is to be allowed to care for 12 to 14 children.

Mr. Schecker commented before we send Ms. McAfee off with nothing, what is the requirement for her to come before us as an agent representing the owner?

Mr. Lohbeck reported we had requested a letter signed by the owners of the property that she could be the agent for the owner; that is all that is necessary.

Mr. Schecker wondered if she could get that from the owners and come back to this board. Ms. McAfee answered all I can do is ask. They stay out of town and want me to purchase the property, but they donít want to get involved. They want me to handle this myself.

Mr. Schecker continued I think you should recognize that you are asking for a variance, and there are quite a few things worth discussing about your variance. You may or may not get the variance that you request so before you commit to this property, it seems to me that it would be very important for you to get their permission to act as their agent, come in here and make the presentation.

Addressing the applicant, Mr. Wilson said if you buy the property with the intent of doing the day care and you present that to us and there are some guidelines or codes that you must comply with, are you prepared to make any improvements that are necessary to comply with the code for day care? For example, you have a one-lane driveway going to the back where three or more cars could fit in. If the code was to widen that driveway to allow two cars to cross, are you prepared to put some money into this property to bring it into compliance?

Ms. McAfee answered I would like to have my license to operate this childcare, so I would be obligated to do whatever I need to do to bring it up to standard. Mr. Wilson said you understand that we canít give any suggestions on property that you donít own. To do something now would set a precedent. No one feels comfortable doing that, but we recognize the urgency and we also are looking at 10,000+ residents in our city and the impact of what going further with this would have on the future.




18 MAY 1999



Mr. Okum suggested that if you are represented by a real state agent, have them draft a legal binding contract conditional upon approval of the variance by the Board of Zoning Appeals, make your offer and in that be duly authorized as an agent of the owner to represent them in the variance request. If they would accept that, you would be able to present your case to the board. Ms. McAfee wondered what would happen if they rejected the offer, and Mr. Okum answered then it is a dead case anyway. Iím not a lawyer, but in my opinion this would be substantial enough to allow the board to hear the case.

Ms. McAfee said I did type up a letter; if the owner signed it, would that be appropriate? Mr. Squires answered yes, as long as we have a letter from them stating that you can act in their behalf and they intend to sell the property to you with this purpose in mind, that is fine. Also, the ownersí signatures should be notarized.

Mr. Squires commented I have no idea of what amount of money would be required for you to put that property in compliance. Ms. McAfee responded my intention is to have it a homelike environment, a home base. I donít want a big institutional childcare. I feel parents are looking for a homelike environment for their little ones. Mr. Squires added Mr. Okumís suggestion that you buy the property subject to approval by Board of Zoning Appeals; if you donít get this approval, you wonít want to buy the property, because you wonít be able to do these things with it.

Addressing the applicant, Mr. Squires asked if she wished to withdraw it. Ms. McAfee asked if she had to withdraw and start all over again. Mr. Schecker answered you can come back with the exact same package when you have the authorization of the owners. When you get the approval, set up with the Building Department another date for a meeting with the Board of Zoning Appeals.

Mr. Squires said there are other people in the audience. Are any of you related to the owners? We will readvertise the public hearing. It would be inappropriate to go any further with this. We canít allow testimony for or against something that the applicant doesnít own. From the audience, the lady said I am not for or against it. I had a question about if it were zoned commercial what it would do to our property. I have a concern about the children because it is an older structure; I am concerned about the kids.

Mr. Squires responded the zoning would stay the same. The day care center can be operated in a residential zone if she meets the conditions, one of which is she would have to have family living in that second house. There are other conditions also that Springdale will have to be sure are met. There also may be criteria from the people who issue the license.


Mrs. Ewing said as far as the first gentleman wanting the garage, how could he add on to his house with the same size structure that we were having a problem with.

Mr. Okum answered an addition to the house would be part of the dwelling unit. It would have to meet the building code as long as it conforms to the zoning code.

Mr. Squires commented I still feel we did the right thing with that request. That thing just doesnít look like a garage; it looks like a storage shed, and a large one. The variance goes with the property . If a resident sees that back there, he will wonder how he gets one.


18 MAY 1999


DISCUSSION - continued

Mr. Wilson commented it is almost the size of a small ranch. Mr. Okum added we have homes in Springdale smaller than that.

Mr. Squires continued I certainly donít want to take his hobby away from him. The best thing we can do is the addition to his existing home. He has a huge lot there. Mr. Wilson added it is very deep; he could put a 1,000 s.f. ranch in the middle of his property and still meet the setback requirements.


Mrs. Ewing moved to adjourn and Mrs. McNear seconded the motion. By voice vote, all voted aye, and Board of Zoning Appeals adjourned at 8:13 p.m.

Respectfully submitted,



____________________,1999 _____________________________

James Squires, Chairman



____________________,1999 _____________________________

Barbara Ewing, Secretary