PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
June 8, 2010
I. CALL MEETING TO ORDER
The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. by Chairman Tony Butrum.
II. ROLL CALL
Members Present: Carolyn Ghantous, Richard Bauer, Don Darby, Tom Vanover, Steve Galster, David Okum, Tony Butrum
Others Present: Anne McBride, City Planner; William McErlane, Building Official; Don Shvegzda, City Engineer
III. MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING OF MAY 11, 2010
Mr. Darby moved to adopt the May 11, 2010 Planning Commission meeting minutes, Mr. Vanover seconded the motion and the minutes were adopted with six aye votes, one Member, Mr. Galster, abstaining.
IV. REPORT ON COUNCIL
Steve Galster gave a summary report on the Council meeting including information that a public hearing is to be set on July 21, 2010 for the changes on the Zoning Code.
A. Letter to Marjorie Harlow Recommended Proposal for an Updated Zoning Code (attached)
B. 2010 S-11 Supplement
VI. OLD BUSINESS
A. Chairman Butrum: The first item under Old Business is the wall sign at Hoxworth Blood Center, University of Cincinnati, 11812 Springfield Pike. We did receive an email where the applicant is meeting with U.C. and requested to be tabled until the August Planning Commission meeting.
Mr. Galster: So moved.
Mr. Vanover seconded and with a unanimous vote from the Planning Commission Members this request was tabled.
B. Chairman Butrum: We have one item for New Business, a request for outdoor sales and landscaping, west entrance of Tri-County Mall at 11700 Princeton Pike.
Mr. Jim Johnson: I am an architect and I am doing this project for Tri-County Mall. We submitted revised and more detailed plans. The purpose is to be a boutique nursery; they are not selling concrete blocks or garden hose, it is strictly plants with some potting soil because a lot of people like to buy that when they buy their plants. I think we have addressed all of the parking issues and the customer pick up. One of the concerns seems to be irrigation; the permanent landscaping will be irrigated with underground lines, there wont be any hoses around and it will be done in a way that it will not wash onto the public way and if it is necessary I think we could put in a curb. We could do more than we are showing but I think, with what is there, we can prevent that from happening; the Mall wouldnt let that happen.
(At this time Mr. McErlane, Ms. McBride and Mr. Shvegzda read their Staff Comments.)
Mr. Galster: Mr. Shvegzda can you tell us at this present service area, how many tenants does this service now or what is the traffic like in and out of there now?
Mr. Shvegzda: I will defer to Mr. McErlane. That handles a number of different tenants.
Mr. Galster: There is quite a bit of ongoing traffic that comes in and out of there to service that part of the Mall?
Mr. McErlane: It would be for deliveries and it actually services both the first and second floor of that section of the Mall. If you look at the overall plan, that loading area has a curved driveway that curves and comes back out closer to B.J.s and there is a freight elevator on that side that services the second floor and that is a little closer to the B.J.s Brewhouse part. I dont know if there are limitations by the Mall on when deliveries can be?
Ms. Stephanie Haas: No. As long as they are coming through the back doors they can deliver at any time they want.
Mr. Galster: Do we have any idea of what kind of volume of traffic is there to service?
Mr. Johnson: The area that we are talking about customer pick-up and delivery was set aside to be for restaurants, the area is actually pretty large and this parking will be marked for customer pick-up only and not for other deliveries; they still can get to where they have to make deliveries without using those spots at least during business hours.
Mr. Galster: I understand that they can make a delivery and that truck can leave without running into those four spots but at the same time you are going to have truck traffic that is going to come out of that entrance; the way the flow looks to me the truck delivery traffic is going to come out of the entrance where you want your customer pick-ups to be entering, the trucks are going to be leaving from that area.
Mr. Johnson: I dont think the trucks can get to that, not big trucks.
Mr. Galster: They would pull in at B.J.s and unload and that would be the exit they would exit out of and then try to get up to Princeton Pike.
Ms. Stephanie Haas: We have never had any issues, from past experience especially during the holidays. Most of the stores get their deliveries before 10:00 a.m. because they want the product on the floor before the store opens.
Mr. Galster: One of my concerns is that I probably use that field that is in front of that delivery entrance area more than any other side of the Mall. The field that is directly in front of the entrance is usually pretty full and I go to the side field and I park there and I go across the service road and onto the service platform there and then cross over; and now I am adding another directional vehicle flow to that and I also then have concerns about how many people will be true customer parking there as to opposed to regular Mall users, granted it is only four spots but I think it will get more traffic because they are conveniently located to the main entrance of the Mall; those are my concerns.
Mr. Okum: A couple things: Mr. Galster, one of the things that I am a little surprised on is I recall when the original plan was approved, I dont recall the parking spaces being there but it has been a long time since we approved those restaurants. We did approve the parking area for pick up of food; to put a burden on the applicant, in this particular case, would be inappropriate. On the other hand, I think they need to be sensitive to it when it comes to their delivery times.
This has exact duplicate hours to the Malls hours of operation?
Ms. Stephanie Haas: Actually it is going to be less. They will, more than likely close at 7:00 or 8:00 p.m.
Mr. Okum: I guess we have addressed the lighting issue; I would hate to see the temporary lights with the little yellow things on them and light bulbs hanging through this trellis work.
Mr. Johnson: I did submit some cuts of the fixtures and I just tried to make a photocopy of the style of the light and if it didnt match up to the actual model numbers, I can get more specific information.
Mr. Okum: I am a little concerned about any off-lighting, spots or that type of device for accent lighting and how that effects the motoring public or pedestrian use of the area. I am asking Staff to address those items.
I do want to comment in regards to the greenhouse; at least you have held it back and it doesnt appear to protrude too far up above the trellis work. I have looked at a number of them recently; I have looked at several Lowes stores and they have the fiber or translucent panel type and I have noticed that most of them are a milky white, is that similar to what we will see here?
Mr. Johnson: The greenhouse roofs that we are talking about are really not as flimsy as what you would see at a Lowes; these are rigid and pretty expensive greenhouse roofs. They can be glazed with glass and I just picked clear acrylic. It makes me a little uncomfortable having glass up there, it still has to withstand 90 mph wind and all the rest of it, but it could be glass.
Mr. Okum: I think from what you see from the front elevation, glass would be more appealing and in fact glass that would be similar to the glazing that is on the building front of Tri-County Mall that has a green-opaque or a green cast to it, so that there is similarity and so that it doesnt look so stark and different than the rest of the glazing work that is on the front of the Mall. I am not saying the top panels that you dont see from the roadway; if you dont see it, I dont care, but if you do see it I think it needs to be treated with a glass or glazing that is similar.
As far as the parking is concerned, Mr. Galster you are right, but we probably should have hit it originally when we did the restaurants, but that was complicated.
Mr. Bauer: I have a question for Dave Okum: When you say the glazing that you cant see, I look at this rendering and I see quite a bit of glass?
Mr. Okum: I think the gables are critical; you will see the roof if you are coming north on 747 but I dont think that is quite as critical because you are more focused on what you see on the vertical elements of the greenhouse.
Mr. Galster: I guess I need clarification on timing, this is temporary, to be reviewed by Planning Commission every year?
Chairman Butrum: I dont think that we set a time and I was the one that brought up and Ms. Haas had actually mentioned in the previous meeting that it wasnt the Malls intent either that this be a permanent solution to the pads and that ultimately they would like to have restaurants. I brought up to grant a temporary approval for the period of a year or whatever the Commission felt was appropriate, not that it couldnt be renewed especially depending on macro-economic environment and all of that but it seems like to me that would be appropriate to put a time frame on it of some sort; not that it would be closed after that necessarily but they would have to come back to the Commission to request a continuance.
Mr. Galster: Is it my understanding that the north field be approved as a planting forever until they come back with a plan to change it and the south field is approved on a yearly basis?
Chairman Butrum: We didnt distinguish that, but in my opinion I think that would be appropriate. Does everyone agree that there needs to be a timeframe attached?
It seems like there was some consensus at the last meeting, there is obviously a lot of opens that Staff has brought up but I am sure I am comfortable with that unless there is anything that Staff does not feel comfortable with reviewing and approving after the fact; I would be comfortable with Staff doing that.
Everyone is comfortable with one year on the south side.
Mr. Galster: My next thought is when you go to selling Christmas trees or pumpkins or whatever, when it is not truly the landscape material, will there be any requirement for any additional lighting or any additional things that will change based on what the use is?
Mr. Johnson: Christmas trees are a much shorter season, they only go up a few weeks before Christmas and they all come down and they are gone the day after Christmas.
Mr. Galster: In my experience with the Christmas tree lot that was used on the corner there is additional space requirements to bag the tree, to get it up on top of a car and that is different driving hazards; it makes me question some of those things a little more. As far as the area, there is not going to need any additional lighting or any additional shed for the attendant to keep warm?
Mr. Okum: There will be a shed inside; there has to be something to cover the cash register.
Mr. Johnson: That is going to be under one of the greenhouse roofs.
Mr. Galster: Is this guy going to stay under the greenhouse roof when it is 20o outside and there is no protection for him when he is selling Christmas trees?
Mr. Johnson: A coat on and a little heater there. There is no plan at this moment to provide additional construction to accommodate that guy selling Christmas trees; it is a cold job.
Mr. Galster: I dont know if they had open fires at that location; all they had was a chainsaw and a heater to stay warm inside? So now you have a chainsaw being used right at the entrance of Mall; that is the reality. I am just making sure we have those things covered.
What about restroom facilities? I assume they just use the common Mall facilities?
Ms. Stephanie Haas: Yes.
Mr. Okum: Lets say Vendor #1 wants to occupy a space between April and September and then he closes down; then Vendor #2 comes into the space and wants to use it in October for Halloween; and then Vendor #3 comes in and wants to sell Christmas trees. What provisions do we have that the southern area will be cleaned up and neat and not looking like an abandoned shop?
Ms. McBride: I suggested in my conditions #5 under considerations that all waste, recycling material; i.e. dead plants, plant trays, containers, pallets, wrapping, unsold products are to be removed from the site in a timely fashion.
Mr. Okum: Maybe we should add, and temporary sales racks or displays into that.
Mr. Johnson: When I was given the design criteria by the Mall that was one of the top three items; when it was not being used that it not appear abandoned and I am sure that will be in the lease.
Mr. Okum: That is the agreement in the lease, that doesnt give us the assurance.
Ms. Stephanie Haas: We have an agreement that the tenant has to clean it up, if not then we will clean it up to make sure it is clean at all times. So when the tenant leaves we are going to insure that there is nothing left behind and it doesnt look abandoned. In our agreement, when the Mall cleans it up then we go after the tenant for reimbursement.
Mr. Okum: I am comfortable with your lease and I was comfortable with what you did with the out lot; but I want to be sure that we get something into our verbiage that we can rely upon next year when you come back in for the conditional review.
Mrs. Ghantous: Do you already have lease agreements in place for Vendor #2 and Vendor #3?
Ms Haas: No, we do not. Currently the deal is that we will work with Greenfield and they will carry all the weight through the fall; Christmas trees sales, we are currently working with the tenant. We know who we are working with and there will be license agreements. The agreement that we sign them to, will be for less than one year. If we sign a restaurant we can get that space back immediately.
Mr. Galster: Just for clarification I want to just evaluate what this place is going to look like when it is empty: We have the landscaping that is perpendicular to the Mall entrance and that will stay and it will be landscaped year-round and we will have the pavers, we will have two closed gates; the landscape will come back around the front of the pad but inside we are just going to have, other than the paver walkway area at the entrance, just the concrete pad?
Mr. Johnson: No, it is all crushed compacted limestone gravel.
Mr. Galster: So we will have crushed compacted limestone gravel in all areas that are sales floor?
Mr. Johnson: Yes; and where the trees are.
Mr. Galster: And then it will be the fence that is 6 tall across the back and the one gate that will be locked?
Mr. Johnson: Yes.
Mr. Galster: What other treatment is on the front south pad; is it just the small landscape and then it is open?
Mr. Johnson: Yes. There is a possibility that I thought about adding a timber rail there, but that would be all.
Mr. Galster: You will have upright timbers to support your
Mr. Johnson: Yes, and those are 6 X 6.
Mr. Galster: You will have the truss work that will stay?
Mr. Johnson: Yes.
Mr. Galster: So then either the tenant and or the Mall will clear to where all that is left is back to those basic things that we just discussed?
Mr. Johnson: Yes.
Mr. Okum: I would like to move to approve Tri-County Mall west elevation changes to include submission submitted to Staff for review. This motion shall include all Staff, City Engineer, City Planners recommendations. All lighting and re-lamping with existing fixtures are to conform to existing Zoning Code requirements. Landscaping shall be maintained at all times, as represented by the applicant and an underground irrigation system shall be placed and maintained operational in all planting beds at all times. Yearly review of the south display sales area shall be Conditionally Permitted Use and shall be reviewed by this Planning Commission yearly. Vertical glazing on the greenhouse area shall be the same glazing appearance as the rest of the Mall. The north field shall be approved as submitted until such time that a development of this area is submitted to this Commission for consideration. The south area shall have a condition that upon seasonal closure of the south area, the space shall be policed of all temporary sales fixtures and apparatus items shall be removed from this area until the next occupant moves in.
Mr. Vanover seconded the motion.
Mr. Galster: Just one more quick question: The south pad is about 75 X 80; how does that compare to what the tree lot was how much space did they need out there, do you remember?
Ms. Haas: I think it is about the same size. I think the tree lot only took about four rows of our parking, but we didnt take the full rows.
Mr. Galster: So, it was about 80 wide.
Mr. Bauer polled the Planning Commission Members and with a unanimous aye vote the request was approved.
Mr. Okum: Will you get this in this year?
Ms. Haas: No. If we were planning to get all the work in and completed this year, the first thing we would hope to have in there would be the tree sales so we are looking for November, the day after Thanksgiving until Christmas. Then it would be March before Greenfield would come in, just because it is a late date of us getting approval.
Chairman Butrum: I wonder though, if that is the case, should we at least extend this initial one to go to at least next fall or something?
Ms. McBride: You might want to consider that and you might also want to go back and amend that motion; you want that north side planted.
Ms. Haas: That would be done this summer. The south side; I dont expect to see a tenant in there until Christmas time because of it being so late in the year. Fall sales are not a big time for sales for Nurseries, they dont make a lot of money; for them to put that much money into planting only to close after two months makes no sense then, so we are looking at early spring for them to open.
Chairman Butrum: I think we should amend the motion for that.
Mr. Okum: We should amend the motion to say after one year of operation; whether it is a Christmas tree to Christmas tree or a Landscaping to Landscaping it gives us a cycle.
So, Mr. Chairman I move that we bring the issue that was just approved back onto the floor for reconsideration.
Mr. Vanover seconded the motion and with a unanimous aye vote from the Planning Commission Members the issue was brought back to the floor.
Mr. Okum: Mr. Chairman, I would like to move to amend my motion to include that the time for review for consideration of the north parcel shall be one year after a year of operation and that the north side work be implemented within the next 60 days.
Mr. Vanover seconded the amended motion.
Mr. Bauer polled the Planning Commission Members and with a unanimous aye vote the amended motion was approved.
VII. NEW BUSINESS
A. Chairman Butrum: The item for New Business is exterior renovations at
155 West Kemper.
Mr. Don Martin: I am with a company called Wright Contracting Services, and we work with Kerry Automotive on a lot of their different projects and this particular project is one I believe they are already doing a lot of these functions now. Ford is coming up with their own Nationwide type of thing; oil change / quick lube and I dont know how many there are in the Greater Cincinnati, I know there are several in Dayton. You will be seeing more and more of them; what they want to do is make some modifications, so I believe that would be the north elevation of the building to accommodate this.
(At this time Mr. McErlane read his Staff report.)
Mr. McErlane: The illustrations show some signs, however no details have been provided for the signs so it would be my recommendation that Planning Commission not consider the signs at this meeting. Although I didnt provide it to the Planning Commission Chairman, there was a color sample chart that was dropped off and the blues kind of differ from what is shown on the illustration. Is it the intent for the colors to match what current colors are on the building relative to things like the awning color?
Mr. Martin: It is going to be that dark blue; they literally call it Ford Blue. I asked for dry-downs and Ford said they dont provide those, they provide what you have, which are printed.
Mr. McErlane: And depending on the printer, this one doesnt show the Ford Blue, this is too light a color for Ford Blue. Do you think it is closer to matching the two awnings that are on that side of the building?
Mr. Martin: From what I have seen, yes I do. I believe it is closer to the elevation that you have seen, the dark blue.
Mr. McErlane: This was actually pasted over top of the building elevation, but the whites are intended to match the whites on the building?
Mr. Martin: Yes.
Ms. McBride: We are actually Kerrys normal Zoning consultants, so I have abstained from this.
(Mr. Shvegzda read his Staff comments.)
Chairman Butrum: Do you know if those awnings are Ford Blue?
Mr. Martin: I dont know if that is the exact match. I can tell you their intent is not to differ from that; the intent was to try to make as close to the quick-lube blue. We were told that Ford and Kerry Ford was making the sign application and was dealing with that. I do have that now and I dont know if it is proper or not to hand those out to you, but I do have that information?
Chairman Butrum: My concern is that Staff would not have had a chance to review that.
But there is a National standard color that all of these are going to be?
Mr. Martin: That is what I understand; I believe so.
Mr. Darby: In the variance deliberations about this project has there been any discussion since you have this section that is going to be sparkling and enhanced, is there any discussion about improving the appearance of the entire building?
Mr. Martin: Not with us; no sir.
Mr. Darby: It will enhance that section and it will really stick out and it will highlight how bad the rest of the building looks.
Mr. Martin: I would like to think that the building doesnt look that bad. My hunch is that if we are up there painting that we would go from outside corner to outside corner; I dont want to mislead you because I dont know that that is part of the work scope. The intent is just to show what they want to do with this one section.
Mr. Bauer: To me it would make more sense if that was finished all the way to the corner, as far as painting, past the big garage door and to where it turns back; that would look better if it was finished at the same time. Your rendering doesnt show a door where the cars are, but your plan does.
Mr. Martin: Where the overhead door is shown in that, that is where the glazing entrance would be.
Mr. Bauer: The business philosophy is different for Kerry Ford and this operation is different than what they are doing now?
Mr. Martin: To the best of my knowledge, this area as you pull in is being used for the kind of work and they are getting in on, this Ford program quick lane; I assume it is to compete with the Jiffy Lubes. They are already doing this now, but I am here to speak for the construction part.
Mr. Galster: You have three colors that are being painted on the building, the blue, the white and whatever the color the band is; grayish. As a minimum, everything on that elevation would need to be painted to match. We need to tie down what part gets repainted if you are painting part of it.
Mr. Martin: That would be great with me.
Mr. Okum: We dont have any layout of the parking spaces; I guess this is really a retail elevation view of this center. I think blue is very strong. I dont understand this glazing, you have nine windowpanes and one of them is a door. I agree with you
Mr. Galster but if you carry the white all the way to the corner, then you are going to need to carry the white up Northland Boulevard. I will not encourage any more blue on that building and a paint job would encourage a significant amount of blue.
How many of these are you doing?
Mr. Martin: This is the only one.
Mr. Okum: This is really a retail exposure on this building and if it is going to look like retail then it should look like retail. It shouldnt look like a block building painted with some blue paint and six to nine glass panes in it. If we approve this, this signage is probably something that is very critical and intricate to that and Kerry Ford is extremely over-signed at this time.
Mr. Darby: Are we sure that the existing sign that is there now is the directional sign?
Mr. McErlane: It is part of the current variance on the property because it is larger than a typical directional sign.
Mr. Darby: If we go from service to quick lane, does that leave us any room for discussion about what this sign should look like?
Mr. McErlane: Until we get a good handle on what we are doing with signs, I wouldnt even consider signs tonight.
Mr. Darby: Then we will take that up later.
Mr. Galster: Even though, Mr. Darby, I do agree with you I believe once you put the name of the business on there it is not a directional sign anymore, it is regular signage and it needs to come down and talk about a monument sign instead of a pole sign. When I looked at the glazing on that building I thought that was the drive-in entrance for the quick lube and I think it is a problem to take that glass all the way to the floor because it looks like that is the overhead door where I am going to drive in and get my oil change done. Those windows need to stop prior to getting to the ground so that it looks more like a window instead of a drive-though door. Because I dont believe that two out of the nine planes are designed to be the door, the other drawing shows three to five feet between that glazing on that and where the actual entry door is going to be. Those nine panels cant go to the floor because I can just see somebody driving up there; it needs to have concrete across the bottom and make it look more like a window as opposed to an overhead door.
Mr. Okum: Frankly if this is a retail elevation of Kerry Ford they need to give us more than this. If they are turning it into a retail elevation to the business then we need to see a significant change to that elevation and at this point I will not be supporting this request.
Chairman Butrum: I tend to agree with Mr. Okum, to me this is now a branded retail sort of unique area, a boutique within Kerry Ford as opposed to just a service area. I would have higher expectations for something like that than what feels like a painted up service area with a sign on it.
Mr. Martin: I happened to be in Beavercreek, Ohio on Sunday and I passed the Ford there and the colors and things that go with this are not standard to it, it was an ACM panel type building. The Quick Lube signs and things were exactly the same.
Mr. Bauer: Dave, what makes that a retail elevation?
Mr. Okum: Because it is a point of destination, a direct point for retail sales; instead of going into a service bay or a dealership. It is no different to me than the Quick Lube next door or Car-X next door.
Mr. Martin: They are already doing that there now.
Chairman Butrum: What they are asking for now is a boutique within the whole Kerry Ford complex that is its own branded has its own identity. The feel is it is a stand-alone piece where you go and get this type of work done. There is a reason they are doing this because they are already doing the service, so it has nothing to do with the function; the form is it is now a retail store within a store. I do agree with Mr. Okum that what they are asking for is a form change and I think that merits being a bit more upgraded.
Mr. Martin: Can I ask you what that means so that I can explain it?
Chairman Butrum: My best definition is they have asked for a self-contained retail entity that doesnt exist today; not that the function doesnt exist. They are trying to create a store; I understand why they are doing it.
Mr. Martin: What do you want to see done to the exterior?
Chairman Butrum: I dont want to design it, but in my personal opinion if you look around at some of the other places there is just a little bit more to it than that.
Mr. Martin: Are you speaking of maybe putting blue awnings?
Chairman Butrum: I think that would be a start, sure. This is almost like somebody coming in and saying I would like to create a storefront here that competes with Jiffy Lube and some of these other places and then coming in and telling us that they want to create a little storefront here.
Mr. Martin: Speaking in a business standpoint what if we said we are going to put a sign up inside. Do I go back to them and say that there is a code; what are we building to?
Chairman Butrum: Anytime someone comes in and request a new elevation change, a new building or whatever, they would come before this Commission and there is no question that there are some subjective aspects to it; it is impossible to get around that, it is aesthetic. I think that is what Mr. Okum brought up, it is purely aesthetic.
Mr. Martin: How do we know we have met that?
Mr. Okum: We are not considering signage today, but by approving this we are approving a function that is going to require signage but we already know the history of Kerry Ford that they are significantly over-signed; so that in itself would give the owners of Kerry Ford a reason to give us justification of why we should approve a use within a use that we know is going to generate more signage requirements on the site. If the owners of Kerry Ford wish to have us consider a signage application, they have to understand that signage is just one little part of that fašade and that fašade is a building elevation that does have aesthetics and those aesthetics all tie together. What weighs is from the eastern canopy back to the right rear corner in that elevation of the building how that elevation is going to be perceived and treated. I am not going to design this for the applicant.
If you are requesting that a motion be brought forward for a vote for purposes of the record, I will be happy to make a motion to bring it to the Board to consider this; on the other hand I will be voting against this.
Mr. Vanover: They are doing this to go into competition with all of the other quick lubes so the potential, in their mind, is they are going to pull in more customers than what they are doing right now; potentially we will have more traffic generated going in and out. Look at the current applicant, Tri-County Mall and look at the change on that corner where BJs is and that was a retail store and now is a major entrance to the Mall.
Kerry Ford is obviously after the bigger market share; they are not competing with just the quick lubes but with Michael Tire and Tire Discounters. It is essentially a new venture, a new business; the worst thing you can do to start a new business is to go into an existing business, to move in and set up shop, you want to announce to the world were new.
Mr. Martin: I cannot argue with anything that you have said; I do know that Ford already does all the things that you just talked about. I guess that because of advertising purposes they are coming up with a corporate model that they are going to promote nationwide. I suppose they are promoting it as a Ford thing but I guess they will say they do more than just Ford.
Chairman Butrum: What they are really asking us to do is come visit Quick Lane.
Mr. Galster: The other thing is the back side of that building is a collision center and I can see all of the sudden Collision and Body Shop being the next sign to go up on that wall. If in fact we are going to update the look and add the new sign; I dont know that they would add the new sign and have to give up another sign if that would be that important to them or not. I think that the building needs to be treated more like it is a total new retail side of that building and that would entail a complete finished look on the whole side of that building.
Chairman Butrum: If there are no other comments, we can make a motion and bring it to vote if you wish?
Mr. Martin: What are the advantages and disadvantages?
Chairman Butrum: We would look at any new proposal with fresh eyes.
Mr. Martin: The only other question I have is will there be any kind of report to tell us what to do; if it is not to a code, what can I go to?
Will we have to come back to do this again next month?
Mr. McErlane: You will be automatically first on the agenda under Old Business for the meeting on July 13, 2010.
Chairman Butrum: You need five affirmative votes.
Mr. Okum: Our City Planner is under contract with the City. She has stepped aside and she is not City Planner right now and she has heard the comments. If there were a building elevation change submitted by Kerry and they were going to be reviewed; there is a procedure or protocol for that to be outside contracted to an independent Plan Review to review the process, so that Ms. McBride would not be put in an awkward position, which I agree with.
Mr. Martin: Can I be blunt; it sounds like we have a problem with this anyway because you guys dont want anymore signage up there?
Mr. Galster: Yes.
Mr. Martin: Can you turn that down because of that?
Mr. Okum: Absolutely. You would have to go to the Board of Zoning Appeals for a variance.
Mr. McErlane: Relative to signage I think there are existing variances on signs; the amount of sign square footage that is there relative to what is allowed is not excessively more. Anything else that is placed on the building is going to require a variance even further or Kerry could consider taking down signs in relationship to trying to balance out the square footage. The bigger issue I think that everybody is looking at relative to signs on Kerry is the number of free standing signs that they have on the property and that is where they are way over what they are allowed to have.
Mr. Martin: Is this the same Body that reviews that?
Chairman Butrum: Only Mr. Okum, who is on this Commission, is on the Board of Zoning; it is a seven person Board.
Mr. McErlane: I think the dilemma that the applicant is having is getting a read as to what you are expecting him to come back with.
Mr. Okum: I think that we need to see some of the prototypes that Ford is recommending for their dealerships; I think that would be something that would be necessary for me and to treat that elevation with that new skin showing a progressive plan to convert over a period of time to their new image because this all goes along with those changes that occur. The better job the applicant does on the presentation of why we should approve it gives a better recommendation to Board of Zoning Appeals on why they should approve additional signage on the building.
Mr. Darby: If in fact the Quick Lane does increase traffic, I think parking needs to be addressed because this is a terrible area for parking and for service.
Chairman Butrum: Would you like us to vote, or would you like us to table this? We can consider this holistically, which will include the sign package and then we can come to something everyone can agree to, you would have the opportunity to get in front of the Board of Zoning Appeals with whatever recommendations that this Commission has made that they could review; I think there are a lot of advantages to tabling this to next month.
Mr. Martin: Then that is my request.
Chairman Butrum: I will entertain a motion to table.
Mr. Okum: I move to table.
Mr. Darby seconded, and with a unanimous aye vote from all the Planning Commission Members the request was tabled.
Mr. Okum: I went to a meeting today which involved Planning Parties from the entire region which involved a good group of people involved in this government program called Sustainable Communities Grant Program; it is a $5,000,000 grant that could be coming into this area for Planning Services. Everybody is working together in a collaborative effort applying for this grant instead of people stepping out on their own.
The other thing I wanted to mention is our Tree Replacement Ordinance that we currently have; right now we have a disease that has hit our Pear trees and Apple trees in Springdale; we have 1,500 Pear trees that are susceptible to the disease called Fire Blight and it is a bacteria and literally turns it to crisp. I treated one City tree and my own tree, and I believe that we have an enormous amount of properties or businesses in Springdale that have these Pear trees on them and this disease is spread by wind and birds and anything else that can get at them. I think notice needs to get out to folks; I think the treatment was $85.00 plus fertilizer.
Mr. Vanover moved to adjourn; Mr. Darby seconded and with a unanimous
aye vote from the Planning Commission Members present, the meeting
adjourned at 8:58 p.m.
________________________, 2010 ___________________________________
Chairman Tony Butrum
________________________, 2010 ___________________________________
Richard Bauer, Secretary