8 MARCH 2005

7:00 P.M.


I.                     CALL MEETING TO ORDER


The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m. by Chairman William G. Syfert


II.                   ROLL CALL


Members Present:†††††††††††† Tony Butrum, Robert Coleman, Steve Galster

Lawrence Hawkins III, David Okum, and William Syfert.


Members Absent†††††††††††††† Tom Vanover


Others Present:††††††††††††††††† Doyle Webster, Mayor

†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Jeff Tulloch, Economic Development Director

†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Bill McErlane, Building Official

†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Pat Madl, Engineer

†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Anne McBride, City Planner


Mr. Syfert announced that any final approval will require five affirmative votes.




Mr. Okum moved to approve and Mr. Coleman seconded the motion.By voice vote all present voted aye, and the Minutes were approved with six affirmative votes.


IV.               CORRESPONDENCE


A.          Report on Council


Mr. Galster said since Item G should not take very long, I move that it be considered as the first item under New Business.Mr. Okum seconded the motion.All present voted aye and Item G was moved to the top of New Business.


B.          Zoning Bulletin Ė February 10, 2005

C.          Zoning Bulletin Ė February 25, 2005


V.                 OLD BUSINESS


A.          Approval of driveway with four driveway connections to the street Ė 11475 Walnut Street Ė tabled February 8, 2005


Reverend Harley Harvey said we built the house four years ago and always wanted a circle driveway.We had the person who put the driveway in came to the City to ask if we needed a permit.Heasked if we needed it and was told no, so we put the driveway in to beautify the house and make the community look much better.


I have with me Walter Maupin, one of the other builders.Mr. Maupin reported that Mrs. Harvey has a medical condition and cannot turn to back out of the driveway properly, so he needed that driveway in the front.






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Mr. Maupin said I coordinated the project, making sure they had the proper insurance and that they knew exactly what they had to do.I told him that he couldnít cut the driveway without a permit, and I told him to come up to see Dick in the Building Department.He told me that the lady told him he didnít need the permit, something about on site masonry.I responded that it is on-site masonry, but you have aprons connecting to public property.The problem is that had he been told he needed a permit to put in the circle driveway, he would have been told that we couldnít do it anyway.


I was told that Elm Alley and Church Street acted as aprons to his property.We didnít know if the other company had an easement to use his property.The City doesnít take care of the property to the south of his house.Thatís where his main driveway is.†† So the one driveway that goes to his garage comes off this unnamed alley.Is the City counting Elm and Church Streets as aprons?Reverend Harvey only has a circle driveway on Walnut Street.There are no neighbors to interfere with him.The only people who use it come to his house or going to the car repair shop behind his house.††


Reverend Harvey added everybody uses the circle driveway, including the mailman and the fire department, so I couldnít understand the problem.


Mr. McErlane reported that the applicant is requesting a variance from subdivision regulations that only permit one driveway connection per subdivision lot in a residential use.


The applicant really has four driveway connections.There were two existing ones before he built the house.There is a private alley that runs south of his property that he purchased with the property for his house.That is where the driveway from his garage connects into.


Legitimately there are two connections to public streets from the east and west sides of that private alley.Up until the circular driveway was built there were two connections to public streets from his driveway.Once the circular driveway was built, there are now four connections to a public street.


The alley itself has been there for a number of decades.Iím not sure if Pastor Harvey determined whether or not there was an easement agreement for that.


The house was built in 1999, and we had noticed that a semi circular driveway was constructed on the property.Pastor Harvey has indicated that the contractor inquired at the City about a driveway permit.The City doesnít require a permit for driveways on private property, but we do require a permit for the area in the right of way, which is typically the apron. I canít explain what might have occurred in the discussion with someone from our office that might have been misconstrued, but it is possible it could have happened.






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Mr. Maupin said when I spoke to the gentleman that did the driveway, he said he called it on-site masonry.Mr. Syfert commented I believe it is the way it was presented. Reverend Harvey added I would never have put the driveway there if I had known I couldnít do it.Mr. Maupin asked if Elm Alley and Walnut are called aprons, and Mr. Syfert answered technically.


Mr. Galster said so his driveway doesnít actually have an apron out onto the public right of way, but his private alleys do.Mr. McErlane confirmed this.


Mr. Okum said it appears there are two parcels here that have never been consolidated into one.Mr. McErlane reported that this site plan was made up from the original site plan which had three parcels.The alley was on its own parcel, and there were two separate building lots.When Reverend Harvey completed the construction of his house, he consolidated all those properties into one.


Mr. Okum said that asphalt road is in pretty bad disrepair and I was disappointed that the City hadnít been maintaining it, but now we know it is yours and everybody uses it.


Reverend Harvey added yes, including the people who clean the streets.They stop right there but they keep going; they donít even salt.


Mr. Okum said I have some concerns about the radius.It is a fairly narrow driveway; is that negotiable with a car?Reverend Harvey answered yes, the fire truck comes up there.††


Ms. McBride said the property is in Subarea C of our Corridor Review District and we do have a requirement that there be a minimum of 200 feet maintained between driveways.There are a lot of other requirements within this district that we do not apply to residential properties.I point that out and the Commission can choose to do as you see fit.


Mr. Galster said I will move to allow the applicant to have four curb cuts on a single residential lot.Mr. Coleman seconded the motion.


Mr. Syfert commented it is not exactly what you would call a highly traveled area.We do have a sign there that says no outlet, but I donít know how many people pay any attention to that.†† Personally I donít have a lot of feelings against this, but I donít have many for it either.I probably would be in favor of supporting the motion.


Mr. Galster said the only thing that concerns me is that this is being used almost as a public street, so do we need to sign it or do you want to donate it to the City and have the City improve the alleyway as part of our regular street program so that it gets plowed?Reverend Harvey responded I make a motion Ė YES.





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Mr. Galster continued I am sure that everybody in the community uses that like a public street.The question is why it is in such disrepair when they do use it.Iím looking for some help from the administration to see if the City would entertain taking over that asphalt drive and making it a part of our thoroughfare plan and bring the asphalt road more in compliance with the city streets back there.Maybe the Mayor would like to comment on it.From the audience, Mayor Webster said we will take a look at it.


Mr. Okum said I tend to agree with Mr. Galster and if Reverend Harvey is willing to do it.I would have a problem with approving four aprons.Three I could deal with a little easier.I would rather se the City take this on especially since it is being used for public purposes.I think we should resolve that before we carry the motion forward so then we would be dealing with three aprons rather than four.†††


Mr. Galster asked the applicant if he agreed with that, and Reverend Harvey indicated that he did.Mr. Galster withdrew his motion.


Mr. Coleman said rather than bring it back, is there a way to address it tonight by giving the approval contingent upon this.Based on Mr. Okumís comments, the motion could be based on three aprons.Mr. Galster responded the only problem is if we make a motion for three and the City doesnít want to take over that road, he has to take one of them out.Which is he going to take out, because we have only approved three. I think it is cleaner to table it until the City has the opportunity to look at the asphalt road acquisition and once that is resolved, make a proper motion for the actual number of driveways that will remain on your property.


Mr. Galster moved to table this until we can clarify if the City wishes to do something with the asphalt road.Mr. Okum seconded the motion.††All present voted aye, and the item was tabled to April 12, 2005.


VI.               NEW BUSINESS


Mr. Syfert said there was a motion earlier to move item G to the first piece of business.


G.          Approval of Building Exterior Changes, 12114 Springfield Pike (former Bob Evans)


Greg Weaver Director of Facilities at Bob Evans reported that when we closed that facility we defaced the building and painted it our standard blue gray.I guess I am here asking for approval for what we have already done.


Mr. Galster asked if there is anything additional or something we would like to change about what they have done.Ms. McBride responded we want to make the applicant aware that when you do find a new user, you will have to come back in and submit an application for the Corridor Review District in terms of signage and improvements to the building, landscaping, parking, etc.



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Mr. Galster moved to approve the building exterior changes at 12114 Springfield Pike (former Bob Evans) and to put them on notice that with a new occupant, they will have to go through the process and get proper approvals.Mr. Butrum seconded the motion.


Mr. McErlane said I donít think we did anything other than elaborate what was done with the building.If someone has a question as to what occurred between the previous building faÁade and the current one, I would be happy to answer any questions, or we can defer to the applicant.


Mr. Okum said it clearly looks like an abandoned building.I wanted to make sure that the applicant is aware that the grass trees and parking areas have to be maintained.Mr. Weaver answered that he was.


On the motion to approve, all present voted aye, and the approval was granted with six affirmative votes.


A.          Approval of Proposed Library, Temple Baptist Church and College,11985 Kenn Road


Randall Plikerd Architect said we have representatives from the church and the college to answer any questions.


Mr. Syfert said you have been there for quite a few years; did you never have a library?Mr. Plikerd answered that the library is on the third floor of the existing building and a part of the mezzanine, and they need double the size of the present library for the college to get accreditation from the accreditation board.They only have until sometime this summer to have a building space for that library or they will lose their accreditation.


Mr. McErlane reported that the property is located in a Residential Single Household Ė Low Density Zoning District.Under Section 153.497 of the Zoning Code, religious places of worship are permitted in residential districts.


The applicant is requesting approval of a one-story library building.The floor area is 4,600 s.f. and it is proposed to be on the north side of the existing education wing of the church.The setbacks all meet the Zoning Code requirements.The maximum height permitted in the zoning district is 30 feet and the proposed library is 20 feet.††


There are 154 parking spaces provided.The church use is indicated at 138 spaces required.The applicant has indicated that there are 300 students enrolled, but I assume that at any one time they wouldnít be on the premises.One of the representatives of the college reported that there are 150 students, who come in shifts.







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Mr. McErlane reported that to determine parking spaces, we look at the highest use, which would be the sanctuary or auditorium use or 138 spaces.


The impervious surface ratio is 32% and the maximum permitted is 50%.†† We thought there would be one tree that would be impacted by the detention basin on the south side of the site, but weíre not sure that will happen.The detention basin has been moved slightly to the west of that tree.


Because they are non profit, the applicant asked if the plan review fees could be waived.


Ms. McBride said the applicant indicated that the worship center had a capacity of 550 and the college a maximum enrollment of 300.There is a large parking area to the rear of the building that is unstriped and in poor condition.


There is an unscreened metal dumpster that sets on the north access drive of the property.When I was there, there was also a boat on a trailer, two storage trailers, three full sized buses, one an old Metro bus with no license plates, a utility truck with a bucket, several van buses and I also understand that frequently there is a tow truck on the property.†† Churches frequently have buses and trailers but the boat on the trailer, the utility truck with the bucket, the tow truck and the former Metro bus without the license have got to go.There are a lot of 50-gallon drums on the paved area.


The RSH-L District allows for one accessory building on a lot which cannot exceed 120 s.f. in size and must be located in the rear yard not exceeding 35% of the rear yard area.The applicant will need to go to the Board of Zoning appeals and obtain variances to exceed the 120 s.f. in building area for the library and to allow it to be constructed in the side yard rather than the required rear yard.


The library does meet all the setback requirements.The maximum permitted building height is 30 feet and the library will be 20 feet.The maximum building coverage for all structures is 25% and with the library building, there would be about a 7% building coverage on that property.The maximum impervious surface area ratio allowed is 50% and we calculate it to be about 32% on that property with the library development.


Colleges are required to provide parking at 1 per 2 employees, plus one space for every four students.Religious places of worship are 1 space per four seats, and libraries are at 1 per 400.Provided that the applicant assures the Planning Commission that the library is for the use of either students of the college or members of the congregation and it wonít be a public library, we can disregard the parking for the library.








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Ms. McBride added that with the college and based on 300 students, 75 spaces would be required plus 1 per 2 employees, I assume 30 employees, or an additional 15 spaces, and 138 spaces for the church.Planning has the ability to modify the parking requirements to reduce the number as you see appropriate.


The applicant has indicated that there are 154 existing parking spaces.I can hardly find one that is properly striped, so the parking lot needs to be resurfaced and striped to comply with our design requirements.A minimum of 159 parking spaces should be provided.


There is a metal dumpster on the pavement of the north access drive, which needs to be screened.The applicant has indicated that they will create a vinyl fenced enclosure and that the exact location is to be determined by the church.That does not meet the requirements of the code, so staff suggests that the enclosure meet the requirements which are a three-sided masonry wall.The fourth side would have the wood gates which would remain closed except when the unit is being serviced.The unit should be located on the south side of the property away from the single family residences which are directly north of the property.


The site plan is contained on two separate parcels, and those need to be consolidated.We have asked for and not received information about the screening of the mechanical equipment for the proposed library.††


The applicant has indicated that there will be no changes to the existing site lighting or signage.


They need to provide screening around the dumpster enclosure, and all of the mulch beds have to have a minimum of 3 inch cover of hardwood mulch in them.There is an existing tree east of the proposed location of the detention basin and with the excavation of the basin under the tree canopy and given its size, that tree may not survive.We would ask the applicant to look at that.


The landscaping plan provided does not indicate the species and size of all the plants.We also have requested that there be some consideration for landscaping given along that north access drive.There is a topographic change going up to the single family residences but the back yards are backing into this facility.


On previous submittals we were given elevations for the library that indicated that it was going to be brick veneer with vinyl siding at the gables, and the applicant did submit a materials board for the commissionís consideration.


Pastor Horsley said my apologies for the condition of the parking lot.We have the money set aside to resurface it.The truck is a friend of the church and I gave him permission to park it on our parking lot.We do have one bus a junk bus that we are trying to find somebody to take it.




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Pastor Horsley added we do have two other vehicles that we are working on to get running.One of them is an MCI that needs to be redone


Mr. Syfert asked about the boat.Pastor Horsley reported that the boat belongs to one of the professors in the college who did not have a place to park it.It looks like Iím going to have to cut down on my generosity.


Mr. Coleman asked how long these vehicles had been on the church property.Pastor Horsley stated that the boat on the trailer has been there 1-1 Ĺ years, the metro bus that doesnít run 1-1 Ĺ years.The other two that we are working on have been there 1-2 years.


Mr. Hawkins asked about the 50-gallon drums in the parking lot.Pastor Horsley answered we had those in the back.During Christmas we do a Walk through Bethlehem and we use those to mark out the walkways for our people.They are on the parking lot now because we dug up a section to rewire the mikes in the back parking lot that were not working.


Mr. Hawkins said you have indicated that the library is for accreditation.Is this a new accreditation for the college or to maintain existing accreditation?


Pastor Horsley stated that two or three years ago, our college received candidate status from the accreditation association for Christian colleges.We have five years to receive full accreditation and a part of their recommendation was for us to have a library to accommodate the size of the college.Right now the library is located on the third floor.Their objection to that was that it is too far out of the way for students, and the weight of the books is unsafe for the building.†† We have scheduled a hearing for the month of November.


Mr. Hawkins said you have the capacity for 300 students and about 150 students right now.How will this accreditation and this library impact the enrollment?Pastor Horsley said the library is not necessarily designed to affect the enrollment.That is just a part of our operation, but the library will be necessary for the accreditation.Mr. Hawkins asked if they anticipated the full accreditation to affect their enrollment, and Pastor Horsley answered that he is sure it will because with the accreditation, we can receive Pell grants and loans like any other college.


Mr. Pilkerd said we were not aware of the side yard requirement, and we would like to get started; the contractor is ready to go.If we put a covered walkway to connect the buildings so this would be a building addition and not a separate building, would that simplify the zoning?


Mr. Syfert responded depending on what happens here tonight, you are only talking one more week, because the Board of Zoning Appeals meets next Tuesday.


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Mr. McErlane added that the section Ms. McBride quoted relative to accessory buildings in residential districts was never intended to address this particular type of installation.It was intended to be for accessory buildings in a residential use.It probably merits a variance, but that is up to the Board of Zoning Appeals.In the next few months, we should consider a Zoning Code change to address that type of thing, because it really doesnít apply to this.But, because it is in the Zoning Code, it does require a variance.


Mr. Madl reported that there is no detention on site currently.If you were to include all the impervious area existing and proposed, and assume the entire site was undeveloped, you would require approximately 27,000 cubic feet of detention.However, if you just look at the new building footprint, we are only talking about 750 cubic feet of required detention, and the applicant is proposing 1500 cubic feet.All our other comments are minor and can be worked out with additional details at a later date.


Mr. Okum said I heard comments about a questionable tree in the detention area.This is a fairly large site, and I would think that certainly the detention area could be relocated so that the tree would not be impacted.Mr. McErlane reported that it could be moved probably 10 feet to the west and be accommodated.

Mr. Okum asked the applicant if he had any problem with that and Mr. Pilkherd answered that he did not.


Mr. Okum said on the color board, the elevation toward the Kenn Road side is very raw.Could you break up that elevation a little bit with windows?Mr. Pilkherd said we could add windows to it.Mr. Okum said since it does face Kenn Road, it would be nice to have something to break that elevation.


Reverend Horsley added the only difficulty with that is that the auditorium itself has no windows in it.That probably is the reason why he didnít put windows in the new structure, to be consistent.Mr. Okum said the auditorium has been there a long time.Had it been brought to us today, we probably would have said something about windows on that side.


Mr. Okum asked how long it would take to get rid of the buses, trucks and so forth.Mr. Horsley answered the truck will be gone next week and the others within six weeks.Mr. Okum said so if the motion indicated 45 days or prior to issuance of the building permit, would that be adequate?Pastor Horsley indicated that it would be.


Mr. Galster asked for a count of what vehicles that would remain.Pastor Horsley responded that it would be the bus on the left, in the back the Metro bus on the right does run, and the Metro bus on the left is junk, and we are trying to give it away.††† Then up close to the building we have a people mover that runs, which is a 25-passenger.†† The orange cones are for people to come in and set up to practice their driving skills.Mr. Galster said so weíll end up with two buses, a trailer, and a car until you sell it, and a people mover which is a 25-passenger mini-bus.





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Mr. Galster said I agree with Mr. Okum on the windows on the east side of the building.I think the addition for the college has windows in the front facing out to Kenn Road.


Mr. Butrum said you said the brick would match the existing as well as the roofing.Mr. Pilkherd confirmed this.Mr. Butrum asked about the texture of the roofing material and Mr. Pilkherd said that it is such a shallow roof you will not notice it.


Mr. Galster commented I wonder if we could make a screened-in area where all of those could be parked. I understand your need to keep them on site.


Mr. Okum said I am hesitant about saying put a fence around the buses, and if I were to make a motion, I probably would not include that.I think clustering them in an area would be best for the site.†† Would that affect their parking space count?


Mr. McErlane reported if we were counting 154 parking spaces, I am sure you were counting the ones where the buses are parked right now, and a bus would take up more than one parking space.


Pastor Horsley said there is an apron in the southwest corner of the parking lot where the buses were parked at one time.Mr. Okum said that probably would be a good place to cluster them, up against the expressway.††


Addressing Mr. McErlane, Mr. Okum said I understand your comments about a Zoning Code amendment, but we donít run into this that often, do we?Mr. McErlane reported that we probably have four to five churches in residential districts and if they intended to build an additional building, they would have the same problem.Ms. McBride added that there are a number of housekeeping issues for the Zoning Code and that could be included.


Mr. Okum moved to approve the plan for the Temple Baptist Church and College and to include in that motion all staff city engineer and city planner recommendations.


1.      This approval is conditional upon approval by the Springdale Board of Zoning Appeals of the identified variances needed.One is the building exceeding 120 s.f. and the second concerning the location of the building in the side yard.


2.      The mechanical units shall be screened from view of the adjoining properties and/or the public right of way, and those mechanical units shall be in the staff and Planning Commissionís approved enclosure or screening.


3.      All lighting and relamping fixtures shall conform to the existing Zoning Code.








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4.      The dumpster and refuse enclosure shall be brick to match the addition and steel framed with wood faced gates on the front of the enclosure.The gates shall remain closed at all times.


5.      All four building elevations shall be brick veneer to match the existing building, church and college with vinyl siding on the gables.


6.      The existing buses and trucks as indicated in staff reports shall be removed within 45 days or prior to the issuance of the building permit.


7.      Excluding the MCI bus, the one Metro bus and the 26-passenger bus that is currently operable and one trailer, all vehicles on the site shall remain operable and be licensed at all times.


8.      Storm water facilities shall be relocated so as not to affect the tree in question.


9.      The applicant has agreed to add four windows on the east elevation of the new library building.


Mr. Galster asked if the dumpster location was being moved to anywhere in particular.Ms. McBride responded I think Mr. Okumís motion was per staff comments which said to locate it on the south side of the parking field.


Mr. Galster seconded the motion.


Mr. Galster asked about their request to waive the fees.Mr. McErlane reported that this was a letter submitted with the original request.†† Mr. Galster wondered if it had been addressed in the motion, and Mr. Okum said no, but probably we need to address it with an amendment to the motion because it is a part of the application.I would encourage us to amend the motion to include that.Mr. Galster asked the fee amount.Mr. McErlane responded that it varies on the amount of review that has to be done by staff.The original deposit is $2,000.


Mr. Okum said I think it would be inappropriate to waive the fee, considering that we do have other churches that have made applications in the City before and have paid the required fees.This is the first time I have heard a request to waive the fees associated with the church development.I know the Presbyterian Church made a major redevelopment project and there was no request for a waiver of fees.I think it would be inappropriate to separate out one church from the other.I would move to amend my motion to deny the request to waive the fees.


Mr. Syfert said I will be voting in favor of the amendment that we do not provide any relief.I have been in the city many years, and we have never granted this and I donít think we should start.



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On the amendment, all present voted aye, and the amendment was adopted with six affirmative votes.


On the motion to approvethe proposed library, all present voted aye, and the approval was granted with six affirmative votes.


B.          Approval of Two Additional Signs (former Pier 1) Princeton Plaza, 11711 Princeton Pike


Wes Noble with HAV Tech Inc. representing Bob Gilhart approached the commission.


Mr. McErlane reported that the property is in the Planned Unit Development zoning district and is part of the Princeton Plaza PUD.The applicant is requesting to place three tenant signs on the east (Princeton Pike) side of the building to serve the tenants that have no frontage on Princeton Pike.We are talking about the building that has an Office Depot and Pearle Vision in it.Section 153.523 (A) of the Zoning Code requires that signs be located three feet from their tenant separation walls.The applicant is requesting that they place two signs that are not within their tenant spaces.


There is a Pearle Vision sign on that east side.The total allowable sign for Pearle is 126 s.f. and currently they have 92.75, which leave them 33.25 s.f. that they could have used.


The applicant is asking for 22.7 s.f. of sign area for each of the two signs they would like to place on the east side of the building to serve spaces that are immediately west of the Pearle Vision space.


Ms. McBride added that the signs are actually off premise signs so the Commission needs to think about the implication of approving these, particularly as it relates to other PUDs in the City.


Mr. Okum said Pearle Vision has 33.25 s.f. that they could have used.If you split that, you are saying 16+ square feet is not enough for an identification sign for a business, is that correct?


Mr. Noble reported initially Bob was going to set it up to split it so that there were three signs for Pearle Vision plus two additional tenants.In his negotiations with Pearle Vision, he had requested that they reduce the size on their signage to allow for future development of the additional spaces.


He is splitting that total Pier 1 space into two additional tenants.A couple of the tenants in negotiations are wanting to have some signage along 747.


Mr. Okum said the only problem I see with that is, letís say Mr. Gilhart makes the decision to split it up into four tenants in that space.Then we could end up with four signs there.


Mr. Noble said right now he is negotiating with a possibility of four, but the fourth place doesnít want any signage on 747. ††That is the reason why he is only requesting the two additional signs.



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Mr. Okum said so they would put a bridge over the downspout on the back of the building, and one sign would be on one side of the downspout and one would be on the other side


Mr. Noble said yes.Right now it goes all the way down to where the first light fixture is on the side of the building.Beyond the downspout is the demising wall that goes up through to separate the Pier 1 space from the space that was Coconuts.


Mr. Okum said so you would not maintain the 3-foot setback from the common space.Mr. Noble said yes we will.Mr. McErlane reported that the applicant indicated that there would be six feet between signs, which typically would be what you would have if you had signs that ran the entire width of the tenant space.You would have at least a six-foot space between signs.


Mr. Okum said if the last retailer decided to split, we would have two signs on the back end of the building for the new retailer in the 76.7í wide space.Mr. Noble said it will not be split.All negotiations are to keep that as a full retailer.Mr. Okum said I understand, but there is a possibility that could ultimately be multiple retailers.Mr. Noble answered there is a possibility that it could go back to a single tenant as well.


Mr. Okum said we arenít talking the Taj Mahal look of the mall.It is the rear end of the building, which makes it even more stark.Maybe the signs give it some character.Iím not overly excited about theback end of that building period, and it does concern me about adding multiple tenants, depending on how it divides out,on the rear end of the building.


I do have a concern establishing a precedent with the off premise sign.I believe those light packs are not down lit as our code calls for, so I think the wall packs on the back of the building need to be shielded.There is something that has changed recently.Mr. Noble said not to my knowledge.I have been around there for quite a few years, and those fixtures have not been changed.


Addressing Mr. McErlane, Mr. Galster said out of that 92.75 square feet that Pearle Vision has, how many square feet are on the back side of that building?


Mr. McErlane said I believe it is the same as what they are asking for the other two signs, 22.7 square feet.


Mr. Galster said I personally have a problem with the off-site signage. What if LaRosaís wanted to have exposure on 747?Why couldnít they be on the back of this building?I donít see the big advantage to the motoring public to see the signs.The people going southbound on 747 will see the north end of the building, which will have signage once these tenants go in, so you will see it on both corners as you are driving by.






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Mr. Noble responded that this building is setting down and the cars are traveling at this height or higher.Mr. Galster added if you are going west on Kemper Road, I donít know that you will see the signs until you have passed the location.I donít see this as a great exposure opportunity that they wonít have on the north side of the building for pretty much the only people who would see it anyway.I also have a problem with setting the precedence for off-site signage.


Mr. Okum said I probably couldnít support this because of the precedent we would be establishing.We then would have to deal with every PUD in the area.


Mr. Syfert said I for one will not be supporting the request because it would set a precedent.


Mr. Galster moved to approve the variance request for several tenant signs at Princeton Plaza and Mr. Okum seconded the motion.


Mr. Galster said I wanted to use the proper format but to inform the applicant, I wonít be supporting the motion because of the precedent that would be set for off-site signage.


On the motion to approve, all present voted no, and the motion was denied with six negative votes.


C.Approval of Variance from the strict application of replanting and penalty, 330 Glensprings Drive Ė Super 8 (formerly Cross Country Inn)


Bhavesh Patel, owner of Super 8 Motel said the first time I came to the city building I came to get a permit to cut down the trees.That time the lady at the front desk said I didnít need a permit as long as it is on my property.


Then we started cutting down the trees, and it took 1 Ĺ months to cut all 41 trees down.The property is about Ĺ mile from the city building and nobody came or told us that we couldnít cut down 41 trees.


After we cut down the 41 trees, we received a notice after one week.Right now we are ready to install 451 caliper inches of trees, but there is no space for all these trees.


After the end of December, the Extended Stay property next door installed 17 trees between the two properties, so we donít have enough space to install all these trees.We need to know where we can install all these trees.


Mr. Syfert responded first of all, I canít understand anyone wanting to cut that many trees down; they were just getting into their beauty stage.Secondly, this is the second time tonight I heard that someone in the building told you that you didnít have to, and I have trouble believing that..





8 MARCH 2005





Mr. Syfert said as conscious as we are about trees in this city, I believe even if you asked the custodian, they would tell you that you needed a permit.


Mr. Patel said I came to get the permit to cut trees, and she said I didnít need it if it was on my property.Mr. Syfert said maybe it wasnít explained properly, I donít know.


Mr. Galster asked if he had a company cut the trees down and Mr. Patel indicated that Mr. Vaughn did it.Mr. Galster asked if it were a tree cutting business, and Mr. Vaughn reported that he had a lawn cutting company, Fresh Cut Lawn Care.Mr. Galster asked if he typically handled tree removal, and Mr. Vaughn said no, it is something we offer in certain situations.Where these were I thought it was odd to cut them all down, but there were no power lines or anything like that, so I thought I could do the job††Mr. Galster asked how many people were working on this.Mr. Vaughn answered two other guys and me most of the time.Mr. Galster said and it took you a month and a half to cut these trees down,Mr. Vaughn said I was doing other work at the same time.


Mr. Galster asked how many trees did you take down per day, and Mr. Vaughn answered it depends.He showed where he could cut the trees.Mr. Galster said so you got rid of anything in front in three days.Things visible from the public right of way were cut in three days.Mr. Vaughn said yes, I cut them down.We stacked a lot of it into firewood and people came in and got the firewood.Mr. Galster asked if he sold the firewood and Mr. Patel said no.If somebody wanted it, they could come and get it.


Mr. Galster said you are a lawn care business; how many other trees jobs have you done?Mr. Vaughn responded I have done other trees; I have done a lot for family members and stuff like that.Mr. Galster said on private property or a business location?Mr. Vaughn answered private property.Mr. Galster asked if he had ever done any other commercial property.Mr. Vaughn answered no.Mr. Galster said you thought it was odd to take out 451 caliper inches of trees.Mr. Vaughn answered I never even knew that a tree was measured that way.I donít claim to be an expert at this or anything like that.It was a job; it was coming up to winter and seemed like a good opportunity even though it was a lot of trees .


Mr. Galster asked Mr. Patel why he had all the trees taken down.Was their a particular reason?


Mr. Patel responded it was for the visibility.We got a punch list from the franchise for the Super 8 that if we cleaned down trees the visibility from 275 would be better for the business.


Mr. Galster said so for strictly economic reasons you cut the trees down so that your site could be seen better from the interstate and from Route 4, so you could see your sign and your building better.

Mr. Patel answered after we cut them down, we were going to install new trees, like flowering trees and trees like that.We were not going to leave it empty ground.




8 MARCH 2005





Mr. Galster said you mentioned that the adjacent property owner, once all these other trees were gone, planted some other trees on their property.


Mr. Patel responded we were waiting for the city approval of what types of trees should be installed, and in that time period, Extended Stay installed those trees.


Mr. Coleman asked how long it took to cut down all these trees.Mr. Vaughn answered if you needed the exact time, I could go and look but I would say at least a month.


Mr. Coleman responded my concern is that we are a tree conscientious city, and it seems odd to me that somebody was out cutting that many trees, and no one from the city went to them and asked for a permit.I am a bit concerned that you were allowed to cut that many trees over that period of time and no one came to you about it.


Mr. Patel said it is just Ĺ mile from the city building to the property.The city people go around the city all the time.In more than one month, anybody could have stopped by and told us.Mr. Vaughn added I know different cities have different rules.I did see city trucks.Iím sure people eat at Applebeeís and it was very noticeable what we were doing.We werenít sneaking in there.


Mr. Okum said as most of you know I tend to have a critical eye to what goes on in the City of Springdale and I didnít observe it.On the other hand, I think Mr. Galster hit a key note on the amount of time it took the trees to come out of the detention space on the front, which is adjacent to the public right of way.It was a very short period of time.In defense of the city, I donít think that what was going on in the back of the lot would have been as noticeable as what happened on that front section.I first observed it when I went to dinner at Applebeeís.


When you look at the diameter of the trunks left in the ground, they were fully matured full specimen trees.It is disheartening.


Mr. Galster said I go to Applebeeís to eat three times a month minimum, and the day I went there and the trees were gone, I noticed it immediately.