PLANNING COMMISSION

MEETING MINUTES

14 FEBRUARY 2006

7:00 P.M.

 

 

I.                     CALL MEETING TO ORDER

 

The meeting was called to order at 7:03 p.m. by Chairman William G. Syfert.

 

II.                   ROLL CALL

 

Members Present:†††††††††††† Tony Butrum, Robert Coleman, Steve Galster

†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Lawrence Hawkins III, David Okum, Tom

†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Vanover and Chairman Syfert

 

Others Present:††††††††††††††††† Doyle H. Webster, Mayor

†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Cecil W. Osborn, City Administrator

†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Jeff Tulloch, Economic Development Director

†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Bill McErlane, Building Official

†††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Don Shvegzda, City Engineer

†††††††† ††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Anne McBride, City Planner

 

III.                  MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING OF 10 JANUARY 2006

 

Mr. Okum moved to adopt the minutes and Mr. Vanover seconded the motion.† All voted aye, and the minutes were adopted unanimously.

 

IV.               CORRESPONDENCE

 

A.          Report on Council

 

Mr. Galster reported that Council had its first property with the spot blight ordinance before it, but the property was negotiated and acquired by the city without going through a final vote on the spot blight.† The first reading of the Zoning Code cleanup items will be at the March 1st†† meeting and the public hearing will be March 15th.

B.          Board of Zoning Appeals Meeting Minutes Ė December 20, 2005

C.          Zoning Bulletin Ė January 10, 2006

D.          Zoning Bulletin Ė January 25, 2006

 

V.                 OLD BUSINESS

 

A.          Approval of two signs with a total height of 31 feet at Mallard Lakes, 12100 Lake Circle Drive Ė tabled 1/10/06

 

Mr. Okum excused himself because of a potential conflict of interest.

 

Mr. Syfert said so for final action on this sign, it will take five affirmative votes, not a simple majority.

 

Jenny Blevins of Village Green Companies said we are the managing agent for Mallard Lakes Town homes.† This community is located off Route 4, and I visible from I-275 East and I-275 West.

 

We currently have two billboard signs facing the highway that are in need of updating and repair.† We are interested in getting those replaced.†

 

PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES

14 FEBRUARY 2006

†PAGE TWO

 

V A SIGNS AT MALLARD LAKES, 12100 LAKE CIRCLE DRIVE

 

Ms. Blevins added that the issue is there is a proposed noise barrier wall to be constructed directly in front of the two signs.† The height of the wall will be 21 feet and we are asking for our sign to be lifted from its current height (21 feet) by 10 feet to allow for proper clearance and visibility.

 

We are asking for this variance because about 58% of our traffic comes from those signs.† In order for our business to be profitable and continue occupancy, we need to be able to sell to the customers.† We are very concerned about what would happen to our business if we didnít have these billboard signs visible.

 

This is our sign, and this is a mockup of the noise barrier wall.† In order to read the sign, it needs to be increased in height by 10 feet.† Otherwise, the sign appears to be peaking over the wall and the phone number could be cut off when you view it from certain areas.

 

Mr. McErlane reported that the property that Mallard Lakes exists on is zoned Planned Unit Development and is part of the overall Crossings PUD development.

 

The applicant is requesting two signs visible from I-275 in two different directions.† Currently there are two signs there in a v-shape that are a total height of 21 feet to the top.† The existing sign faces are 10 feet high by 16 feet wide.† The applicant is requesting 10-foot high by 16-foot wide panels on two separate signs in a v-shape as well at 31 feet.

 

One of the documents we received last month indicated that it was necessary to add the additional height because the ODOT sound barrier walls would obscure the sign.

 

Some of the Planning Commission members will remember that the sign that is there today is the result of an agreement from a court settlement that the City of Springdale had with the developer.† The parameters for that sign were that each face could not exceed 160 s.f.† There was no specific reference to height in the agreement in 1988.† I talked with the law director, and he indicated that any change to that sign would be handled by Planning Commission as a modification to the PUD as we normally would do.† Because this is an even greater non-conformance, this Planning Commission is responsible for approving or disapproving this change.

 

There are some line of sight drawings that were submitted by an engineer and based on those drawings; it looks like the height of the sign does need to be increased but not necessarily 10 feet.† Based on the line of sight drawing, it looks like 25 or 26 feet would accomplish it.††

 

Ms. McBride reported said the applicant didnít give us any indication if the sign was going to be illuminated or not.† The current sign is not illuminated.† Ms. Blevins answered it is illuminated, and we were going to keep the same exterior illumination.†† I think the provision was as long as it is not facing the road, it would be permitted, and we are only asking for the same illumination.†

 

PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES

14 FEBRUARY 2006

†PAGE THREE

 

V A SIGNS AT MALLARD LAKES, 12100 LAKE CIRCLE DRIVE

 

Ms. McBride continued we discussed this in our staff meeting, and are very sensitive to the fact that the noise walls will block part of the visibility of this sign.† The recommendation we are making to Planning Commission is that a sign of approximately 26 feet in height would be able to provide visibility to the sign from I-275.

 

On the information we requested concerning signatures from property owners, we have received that tonight.

 

Mr. Galster asked if the line of sight references mean if you are directly in line with the sign.† I see that sign from quite a ways away coming up and down the interstate and I donít think the noise wall will have any effect on that visibility until I get right up on it.

 

Mr. Patrick Sage said I work for a consultant and we did the engineering work and the noise analysis.† We did prepare the line of sight analysis and that is the static view directly perpendicular to those signs on I-275.

 

Mr. Galster said so that is the worst case scenario.† Mr. Sage answered not necessarily.† You have to pick a point when you are doing a cross sectional analysis.† It was just to show the barrier in relation to the sign.† Because of elevation changes, there could be places where it is worse.† It is relatively level through that area.† When you get a little further west the elevation starts to change.† It could be better or worse as you go further east.

 

Mr. Galster said as you continue to go west, does the height of the wall go up or down or does it stay at the same level?† Mr. Sage responded the wall in that area averages between 19 and 20 feet and it pretty much stays the same through there.† It actually goes up the hill there, because of the right of way and elevation changes pretty significantly so the wall follows the topography.

 

Mr. Coleman asked the percentage who called as a result of the sign and Ms. Blevins answered 58%, which is why we are here tonight to plead our case.† It is real important that we remain property owners here.† We are very happy to have the residences in Springdale and want to remain here for many years to come.

 

Mr. Syfert said I feel without question that you need to elevate the sign a little bit, but I donít know that we need to go to 31 feet though. In staff we felt 26 feet; do you think that would work for you?

 

Ms. Blevins responded the only reason I was trying to go for more is because I donít want it to look like this (showed mockup sign right above wall).† It will be a very nice attractive sign and if it looks more like this (showed mockup sign higher) it will make a better presentation, a better look all around.† Weíre not trying to get too much higher, but weíd like some extra footage to play with regarding the elevation.†

 

Mr. Syfert commented I donít think you have any trouble going

westbound.† The only trouble would be coming eastbound.

 

PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES

14 FEBRUARY 2006

†PAGE FOUR

 

V A SIGNS AT MALLARD LAKES, 12100 LAKE CIRCLE DRIVE

 

Ms. Blevins agreed, adding that also it would have something to do with the vegetation that continues to grow and the wall that goes up as the topography goes up depending on where you are driving.

 

Mr. Butrum said there is 8 Ĺ feet of elevation change there as well, and your line of sight drawing is assuming 31 feet?† Mr. Sage answered no, that is the existing sign.

 

Mr. Butrum said I would agree that if the sign looked like it was just peaking over the wall, that might be a problem.† Assuming the 26-foot recommendation from staff, and the 8 Ĺ feet on the elevation, is it really going to look like it is peaking at that point?† It seems to me that it wouldnít look like it is being cropped and there would be a little bit of pole there.

 

Ms. Blevins responded if you are directly in front of it, yes.† But if you are heading eastbound, no.† It depends on where you are looking at it.† I donít think they will be looking at it directly as they drive by.

 

Mr. Butrum said are you saying that at 26 feet you think it would form a hard line from the top of the wall to the bottom of the sign?† Ms. Blevins answered yes, especially if you are heading eastbound.†

 

Mr. Coleman said I would not be opposed to that height being at 28 feet to make sure there is enough separation.

 

Mr. Butrum asked if there was a line of sight reference to the recommended 25 to 26-foot sign in terms of whether or not it would create a crop of the sign with the wall.

 

Mr. McErlane reported that based on the line of sight drawings that were given to us; I can only estimate that the line of sight hits the sign at about four feet from the bottom.† So, if you raised it five feet, you would have a foot of pole that would show.

 

Mr. Galster said I think the only place where it becomes an issue is when you are right on top of it.† Coming east or west, your sign is far enough from the wall and up on the hill so that you will be fine.

 

Addressing the applicant, he asked if she were okay with the 26-foot compromise.† Ms. Blevins responded I am at your mercy and I am hoping for 31 feet.† I just want it to look right, and I think that probably 28 feet would be a safe bet.

 

Mr. Galster asked the sign manufacturer if the sign is put in at 26 feet and they would need to raise it two feet after the walls go in, how big the job would be.† Mr. Shmulevich of Sign A Rama said I donít think it would be safe.† With a structure this high, I doubt that would be the right decision.

 

Mr. Galster moved to allow the applicant to construct a new sign as they proposed at a height of 28 feet with all other issues as they have presented.† Mr. Butrum seconded the motion.†

 

 

PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES

14 FEBRUARY 2006

†PAGE FIVE

 

V A SIGNS AT MALLARD LAKES, 12100 LAKE CIRCLE DRIVE

 

All present voted aye (Mr. Okum had excused himself), and the approval was granted with six affirmative votes.

 

VI.               NEW BUSINESS

 

A.          Approval of Final Development Plan Ė Tri-County Mall Redevelopment, 11700 Princeton Pike

 

Bob Rich of BHDP Architecture and Mike Lyons, Mall Manager approached the commission.†

 

I have updated drawings but not all of the color information is completely consistent with the information that has been presented to you in auto-cad straight line drawings.† It is mostly correct, but there are minor things such as some slight differences in the landscaping and color drawings.†

 

We are still proposing the redevelopment of Penneyís with a glass corner and escalator that carries directly up to the second floor with some three dimensional metal architectural panels outside that emulate what windows might be.

 

There will be a change to the traffic pattern around the entrance with added landscaping, because we consider this to be our new main entry for the mall.

 

There are minor changes in the details on those panels and some minor changes on how we treat the light box.† †

 

We are consolidating two entrances on Kemper Road into one major entrance.†† Since the last time we were here, we have modified all of our traffic configurations per recommendations by TEC and by Don. We have upgraded all the traffic routes according to their suggestions.

 

We are demolishing some of that front face of the existing entrance and pushing those restaurant entrances into the mall space.††† We actually brought them closer together and added a landscaped area between the two.† The intent is to soften the entrance and make it much more pedestrian.† We have a new grand entrance, so there is no reason for the two to compete, so we are bringing it down to scale with the landscaping just the size of the space between the two restaurants.

 

Both restaurants have porches that will face the inside entrance.†

We are upgrading the type of paving material and here is the prospective view of the two entrances flanking that existing main entrance.

 

This is an elevation on Princeton Pike.† This area has been changed to more accurately reflect those three-dimensional architectural panels that we are adding to the face of the former J.C. Penney building.†

 

I want to make it clear that Carabbas does not have landscaping on the building as you have seen.† This is their new prototype.

PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES

14 FEBRUARY 2006

PAGE SIX

 

VI A. TRI-COUNTY MALL REDEVELOPMENT Ė continued

 

Mr. Rich showed the Kemper Road elevation, adding that these panels are upgraded.† This shows where we propose what we call atmospheric graphics.†† We have modified that to say that we would like for them to include up to 15% of tenant identification.†

 

Mr. Rich showed the finishes for the main part of the mall remodeling, plus the finishes of the Carabbas.† We donít have the Cheeseburger finish; it disappeared and we will have to submit it between now and when we bring the drawings in for a permit.† The light fixtures for the walkway and the building, and the awning material for the lower level new lease spaces were shown, as well as the LED light fixture for the light box

 

Mr. Rich showed the board representing the out parcel, which will include a deli and a coffee shop combined back to back, as well as the finishes for that building.

 

This panel is for the new signage.† There is the pylon sign photo-montaged into the highway.† This is the sign we are proposing at the two primary entrances of the mall, Princeton Pike and Kemper Road.† Both will have this new entrance identity sign.† This is a smaller entrance identity sign for the other entrances besides those two.† We are replacing the service court signs with this sign.† We are proposing to remove those medium height signs that exist at the mall and replacing them with these.

 

The new pylon sign has six sign bands to identify primarily the department stores and some new restaurant tenants that would be coming into the mall, and a reader board that is 18í x 40í that would have graphic display, facing both east and west.††

 

This board is intended to reflect the character of the atmospheric panels with the addition of tenant identification.† It might be that some of these panels donít have tenant identification so we brought you some images that might represent what would be on those atmospheric graphic panels.

 

We have eliminated the sign at Princeton Pike and Kemper Road and are proposing to have a landscaped area that would be something of an oasis at that corner.††

 

We have upgraded the landscaping, especially in the new areas, adding approximately 80 trees to the site, as well as significantly upgrading the landscaped areas especially around the former Penneyís building.

 

Written covenants were authored by Thor at the suggestion of the staff.† We tried to equate the existing covenants filed with the PUD to accommodate the design changes we are proposing, those that were outside the recognized zoning requirements for the project.†

 

Mr. McErlane reported that to this point, Planning had recommended the preliminary plan to Council.† Council approved it on December 21, 2005, and last month Planning officially gave a final approval to the preliminary plan.

 

PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES

14 FEBRUARY 2006

PAGE SEVEN

 

VI A. TRI-COUNTY MALL REDEVELOPMENT Ė continued

 

Mr. McErlane reported tonight you are reviewing the changes and finalization of those items on the plan.†

 

There are some changes.† One was in the reconfiguration of the two restaurants at what is currently the mall main entrance; they also eliminated what was proposed initially to be some new storefronts for tenants inside the mall.† The glazing may be a little bigger than what it currently is on the storefronts, but it wonít be storefronts for individual stores in the mall.

 

The plan shows some carryout parking for the Carabbas Restaurant.† There is a lot more detail than what we had previously.

 

The tree removal and tree replanting plan now shows 500 caliper inches of replacement required, and they are proposing 504.† When we talk about covenants, there is a covenant recommendation that they are exempt from the replanting requirements to a certain degree and it seems that is unnecessary at this point.† We would recommend that they strike that from the covenants.

 

On the tree replacement, our code indicates that we compare caliper inches.† However, in nursery terminology, they plant evergreen trees by height and not caliper inches.† Our tree preservation ordinance requires a minimum 10-foot height planting for deciduous and evergreen trees and we want to point out to the applicant that the evergreens will need to be 10 feet.

 

We do have additional information on the atmospheric graphic panels.† Initially we talked about whether or not they constituted signs because at the preliminary plan stage, we werenít talking about advertising on them; it was more graphic and possibly things that would say spring or whatever.†† Today under the new plan they indicate that they would use up to 15% of those panels for signage, so Planning Commission needs to consider that.†

 

We believe whatever restriction Planning Commission settles on should be in the covenants as well, and that covenant as it stands right now needs to be modified.††

 

The panels are a fabric material, and they are externally illuminated from below.† They do show details on signs.† Realistically the only sign that exceeds what the Zoning Code allows for individual signs is one that is shown on the south side at 162 s.f.† The Zoning Code says that an individual sign canít be more than 150 s.f.† Based on the size of the building, I donít think it is out of scale with the building.†

 

On the outlot building, there are some discrepancies between the tabular numbers and the ones shown on the building.† The numbers are transposed so the square footages that I have disagree with what they have in the tabular form.† I based them on what was shown on the building for the Potbelly tenant.† For Caribou Coffee, I did not include the sign in the square footage, the sign that is facing the mall, because it is not visible from the public right of way and we donít include that in square footage.†

 

PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES

14 FEBRUARY 2006

PAGE EIGHT

 

VI A. TRI-COUNTY MALL REDEVELOPMENT Ė continued

 

Mr. McErlane as far as the major pylon sign is concerned, we are close to 1651 s.f.† The C on the Tri-County is higher than six feet, and if we use our normal formula for determining square footage it would actually be more than the 240 s.f. shown in the drawings.†

 

The Zoning Code allows 850 s.f. on a regional shopping center sign, but if you keep in mind the parameters that we established in the Zoning Code were based on what was presented to us by the mall when they came in with a major sign previously.† We tailored those around what was being proposed at the time.†

 

The applicant talked a little bit about the light box with the LEDs and I donít know how comfortable Planning is with how that changes and how often it changes and how quickly it changes.† The applicant has indicated that the intent is that the entire panel will be one color at a time and it will gradually change.† I think Planning needs to be comfortable with how that operates.†

 

The details of the outlot building show the dumpsters in the front yard, and we recommend that they be moved at least as far back as the back of the building.†

 

On the covenants, the one issue is concerning the shopping center sign.†† The text of the covenants basically says we arenít complying with anything that the regional shopping center parameters say.† We are not sure that is necessary.† It probably should refer to a drawing that Planning Commission approves, and the only things that need to be tied down fairly well are the operation of the video panel on there, not necessarily the rest of the parts of the sign.† If it referred to the drawing and somehow we tied down the operation of that panel, that is what needs to be in the covenants.†

 

We talked briefly about the atmospheric graphic panels and how that language should be changed as well as deleting the language in there regarding relief from the Tree Preservation Ordinance.†

 

We did get a brief comment from the law director saying that from a language standpoint they didnít see any problems with the covenants.† However they know they arenít in final form and they would review any changes that would come about based on comments from the Planning Commission and staff.

 

Ms. McBride said one of the items we have talked about on this redevelopment is the number of parking spaces.† Right now they are proposing 1,284,807 square feet.† By our code that would require technically a total of 6,376 parking spaces.† The applicant is proposing 6,151 parking spaces the same size that the city has approved in that development, 8 Ĺ x 19.† That gives them a parking ratio of 4.79 per thousand.† A lot of industry standards would say five per thousand but you have to look at the overall development.† They have a mixture of uses and timing and phasing.† If folks are coming to Carabbas for dinner they might go into the mall to shop.† There is a lot of cross traffic here, so from that standpoint staff feels very comfortable with that 4.79 per thousand.

 

 

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14 FEBRUARY 2006

PAGE NINE

 

VI A. TRI-COUNTY MALL REDEVELOPMENT Ė continued

 

Ms. McBride added we have talked about the reshaping for Carabbas and Cheeseburger.† One of the questions we had was whether or not they were going to have outdoor dining, and the applicant has indicated here tonight that both of them would have that.† Staff doesnít see any problem with that.† In fact given the new pedestrian plaza in there, I think that would be a pleasant addition to that area.

 

They did provide some pickup spaces for Carabbas and I donít know that Cheeseburger does that.†

 

In terms of the outbuilding, since Planning last saw that it has been designated as a 1900 square foot Caribou Coffee and a 2200 square foot Potbelly.† The only question staff had about that was they have a six foot three sided brick waste enclosure with solid metal gates but it is oriented toward West Kemper.† They have a landscape island to the east of the building and if they could move it to there, we would like to see it pushed back and not oriented toward West Kemper. That also would give them the opportunity to put some landscaping around there that would tend to screen that.† So that would be staffís recommendation on that.†

 

The Caribou Coffee will have a drive through on the north side of the building, and we need to work with the applicant and make sure that they are going to have the five stacking spaces from the order point that our code requires.†

 

They are indicating a number of pedestrian crossing points from the parking field into these new accentuated entrances to the mall, and staff had a question as to how those pavement areas will be treated.

 

There were a few places where we werenít sure if they were going to be illuminated or non-illuminated signs and Iím sure the applicant can clear those up for us.†

 

We did get additional details on the outlot building, both for the Caribiou Coffee and the Potbelly signs as well as the signage on the mall.

 

On the free-standing signs, the applicant is taking down a considerable amount of sign area, particularly on West Kemper and on Princeton Pike and replacing it with more attractive and significant signage from an aesthetic standpoint.† The tradeoff is that they would have the mall identity pylon sign on I-275.† When you look at it on a scale of being on Princeton or being on West Kemper, it will give us a much more human scale.

 

Our code was amended to include a 110-foot tall sign with 850 square feet per side.† We did an analysis and the approximately 1600 square feet on the pylon sign is very close in area to the Cincinnati Mills 275 sign, and Tri-County Mall is trying to compete with Cincinnati Mills and capture the same traffic on I-275.† I think commission needs to keep that in mind when you start to look at the square footage.††

 

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14 FEBRUARY 2006

PAGE TEN

 

VI A. TRI-COUNTY MALL REDEVELOPMENT Ė continued

 

Ms. McBride added they have made a number of landscaping revisions working with our architect to come up with a very attractive and enhancing landscape plan. We have minor comments on labeling plant material.† Once the roadway improvement is done on West Kemper Road, we would like to see some commitment to go back in and add some street trees along West Kemper where it is possible.† Those commitments canít be made today because we are not sure exactly what kind of improvements we are going to make, but as long as there is a good faith effort on everyoneís part that when those improvements are done, we can get some street trees back into West Kemper.

 

On their landscape plan, their evergreens are noted at three inches, and that would be fine for white pine.† A three-inch white pine would be 10 feet in height, but our Tree Replacement code says they all need to be 10 feet.† A spruce would need to be four to five caliper inches to hit that 10 foot height requirement.†

 

We have cut sheets on all the proposed light fixtures.† They will be downsizing the lights.† They will use the same fixtures, same poles and same heights in the parking lot but using one lamp instead of two in the parking field.† They have added pedestrian level lighting around the exterior of the mall which is a nice complement to the landscaping.† It makes it a lot more welcoming as you are coming into the mall.

 

We still have a couple of levels where we are falling below the .5, particularly at that southwest corner, which is now the new main entry into the mall.† We would ask the applicant to look at the light levels in that area and see if we canít get them up a little higher; some are as low as .3.† That is something they can easily correct.

 

With regards to the highway pylon sign, instead of saying will exceed everything, we may need to set some not to exceed limits. If Planning feels comfortable with the signage they are proposing this evening, that could be incorporated into the covenants, as well as something about the message content on the community video screen.† This would be in terms of who will be able to use it and for what periods of time and during what times.† Those are things that can be worked out with City Administration and the applicant, as long as the commission feels comfortable with that.

 

We have gotten a lot more material about the building elevations.†† With the exception of Cheeseburger in Paradise, we have seen everything else that applies to the redevelopment.†

 

A lot of the things that they are proposing are cutting edge.† They have different techniques that will make it all come alive and we have to trust in them as architects to bring those elements in and give them a little bit of leeway.†

 

We are showing some awnings on the outlot building.† Will they be illuminated?† Also where will be mechanical equipment be located, and how will it be screened?

 

 

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PAGE ELEVEN

 

VI A. TRI-COUNTY MALL REDEVELOPMENT Ė continued

 

Mr. Galster said on the outlot building and the waste dumpster, is there any way to connect that building so it looks like it is part of the building and still have access to it?

 

Ms. McBride answered they may be able to do that.† My concern with that is if you are on the east or the north side, we have the drive through lane for Caribou to look at.† On the west and south side, we also have some access issues, some internal circulation issues.† If the commission was comfortable for us to work with the applicant and come up with a location, as long as they are agreeable to doing that, that would not be so prominent.†† If we can relocate it to a less visible place, and somewhere that might give us the opportunity to add landscaping to soften it further, but still make it a location that would work for the two restaurants.† Mr. Galster said I think if it can look like an extension of the building that would be good.

 

Mr. Rich said we can have the outparcel people put the dumpster where you would want it as long as they can still get their drive through and as long as people donít have to walk past it to get to the front door.†

 

Mr. Galster commented I personally donít have a problem with the small amount of advertising on the panels if it is 15%.† I donít know that it needs to be on every panel.†† I think the mall is a big enough structure that 15% advertising on the panel is not a major problem.

.†
It seems like a lot of the covenant issues are centered on the video display board.† Perhaps a better way to approach it might be to have the City own the video display board and have access to it for maintenance etc.† If it is too bright the City could turn it down.† That might be another way to solve some of those issues.† I donít have a problem with the actual size of the sign.

 

I think the scale of this video board is okay.† Are we making provisions to add additional tenants or limit it to those six or limit it by total square footage?† Mr. Rich responded we are not proposing additional tenants for the sign, so it would be the six.

 

Mr. Galster added based on the scale presented, I am pretty comfortable with the pylon sign.† I think the entrance signs are a major improvement over what we originally saw and a major improvement over what is out there today.† I am okay with the metal boards; I think those look fine and I donít have a major problem with a little advertising on the graphic display panels.

 

Mr. Okum asked the distance of the pylon sign from the right of way.† Mr. Rich responded we are putting it within 10 feet of the property line.† I canít say the proximity of the right of way from the property line except I assume that the edge of the right of way is at our property line.† There is either a 40 or 50-foot grade differential from our parking lot which is the base of the pylon up to the highway.

 

 

 

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VI A. TRI-COUNTY MALL REDEVELOPMENT Ė continued

 

Mr. Okum commented that is one of the things that are really hard to visually conceive.† I think we are really talking above the roadway 75 feet to the top of the reader board.† Then you would add another 12 feet for the square element, the aluminum panels that flare off.† You are 10 feet off the property line but because of that slope easement off the expressway, how far back are you from the guardrail.† †Mr. Rich answered we are at least 50 feet.

 

Ms. McBride reported we were taking out the plans and roughly estimating, and it looks like the pole would be about 36 to 38 feet off the property line.

 

Mr. Okum said I am more interested in the edge of the site, where the 48í-6Ē width hits.† Mr. Rich answered if you think about the slope, it is about a 40-foot differential, and if you calculate that even at a 3 to 1 slope which is the maximum slope, it would be at least 70+ feet from the edge of the guardrail to the property line.†

 

Mr. Okum commented if you look at the elevation photo, it appears that it is a monument way up in the air above the roadway.† We are really talking 80 feet above that roadway and 80 feet back.

 

Mr. Rich responded I thought Ms. McBrideís description of it being approximately the height of the Cincinnati Mill sign was fine.† We were using that as our go by, that the apparent height of it would be about that and we had to add the dimension to get from the highway down to grade, and that was really the difference in height of the signs.

 

Mr. Okum commented I think Cincinnati Mills sign is a little bit lower to the roadway.† Mr. Rich added that sign is significantly closer to the grade of the highway than we are.†

 

Mr. Okum added I donít think it needs to be higher or lower than the Cincinnati Mills sign is to the highway.† Mr. Rich responded that is really what we were trying to accomplish.† Mr. Okum said itís the angle and because we donít have an angle on the highway looking at that sign, we donít know where that sign sets to your eye.

 

Mr. Rich answered unfortunately I donít have a drawing that shows specifically the grade of that highway relative to the grade of the parking lot.† We were basing our calculations on trying to approximate the height of the Cincinnati Mills sign from the highway.††

 

Mr. Okum said I am saying that the sign should be no higher than the Cincinnati Mills sign from the roadway to the top of the sign.†

 

Mr. Shvegzda said if you consider the clearance from that railroad bridge, it is about 23 feet from the rail to the bottom of the bridge.† In that vicinity of the parking lot, the railroad bank is probably eight feet higher than the parking lot, so you are talking 35 to 40 foot elevation difference.

 

 

 

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VI A. TRI-COUNTY MALL REDEVELOPMENT Ė continued

 

Mr. Rich said you can see in this photograph that we are at the edge of an overpass unfortunately, and we extrapolated what the height of that sign was.†

 

Mr. Okum said my feeling is if 120 feet makes it there, then that is where it should be.† If the analysis shows that it needs to be a little lower, as long as it is as high to the viewer on the expressway, I am asking you if you have a problem with that.† Mr. Rich answered I donít think so.† We donít want to be the worldís tallest sign.† We are just trying to get it up to where we feel that we have a commensurate identification with Cincinnati Mills.† We are not attempting to be taller.

 

Mr. Okum said Mr. Vanover is saying your sign is probably 150 feet off the guardrail, if your drawings are to scale, so you are some distance off, more than what they are in Northern Kentucky.†

 

Mr. Rich said we wanted to make sure that the sign was noticed.† I have to tell you in all sincerity that we werenít trying to trump the Cincinnati Mills sign.† We wanted to be on equal footing with it.†††

 

Mr. Syfert commented I have no problem with the sign the way it is.† Mr. Galster added it doesnít matter to me what it looks like in relationship to Cincinnati Mills.† I want it to look right for Tri-County Mall.† If itís higher or lower, I donít care.† I want it to be effective for the mall and ultimately I think what will happen is there will be a manufacturer that bids on that video display board who will determine the correct height.† So I think the height of the video board still could fluctuate based on what the manufacturers say will be the best use of the display.† Mr. Okum wondered if he was saying higher than 120, and Mr. Galster responded I donít know.† I donít care if the sign is 200 feet tall, if the video board is where it is supposed to be and it looks right for the mall.

 

Mr. Okum said I am not arguing that point. I am saying that Cincinnati Mills sign is very visually acceptable to the eye.† If you are driving across 275, the information on that sign is very easily read.† You are looking straight ahead at the information, and that is what I am looking for.† †

 

Mr. Okum said my other question concerns maintenance.† Is there going to be a maintenance agreement on all the signs including the atmospheric panels?

 

Mr. Rich answered with the pylon specifically, my hope is that you will approve the structure, the body of the sign and if there needs to be language in negotiation with Thor in terms of message content and availability of the City to be a part of the message content, that could be a separate negotiation from this approval.

 

I canít represent Thor, and they probably want to sit down with you all and negotiate that.† I think they very much want to have the use of it shared between the mall and the cityís interests, but we really donít know that yet.† There is some time to negotiate that out as long as we are able to go ahead with the project.

 

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VI A. TRI-COUNTY MALL REDEVELOPMENT Ė continued

 

Mr. Okum wondered if the covenants should contain language to protect the appearance and upkeep of the atmospheric panels.† Mr. Rich responded the only thing I would say about that is that it is in the mallís interest to not let the mall look like it is tired and dull.† I donít know that you need to tell them that.† I can tell you because I deal with malls across the country, and that mall is probably one of the best kept malls in the entire country.† You can write it in the covenants, but I donít think it is necessary; they need to stay ahead of that game.

 

Mr. Okum said the side elevation of Cheeseburger in Paradise is a pretty stark elevation.† Mr. Rich responded absent from that elevation are the fruit trees and landscaping we are proposing.† It was our feeling that when you cover that elevation with landscape elements and street lamps, it really will be okay.

 

Mr. Okum commented I truly donít like the side elevation of Cheeseburger in Paradise facing 747.† Mr. Rich responded I think it is important that† their characteristic be contained within that entry element.

 

Mr. Okum said I agree with that, but personally I think we need to do something with what I would consider the front elevation of Cheeseburger in Paradise.† Iím not a bit comfortable with that.

 

Mr. Rich responded that elevation probably will be modified somewhat and if they† modify it, you can have them come in and talk to you.† I donít think the dimension on that elevation exactly matches what is on our drawing.† The last time we had a rectangular footprint, and that elevation really matches that rectangular footprint.† I assume that part of your objection would be the length of that blank appearing wall.

 

Mr. Okum said it has no windows and emergency exit doors.† Mr. Rich added even if I say you approved that elevation and they would come in with a different elevation, and I think they would have to because the footprint is a different size, I would presume you would have to review that elevation.

 

Mr. Okum responded I donít know that we would.† I donít think this will come back to us again.

 

Mr. Rich added I donít think the elevation is as long as that elevation.† Mr. Okum added I think it needs true faux windows instead of some shutters or whatever those are.† I want something that looks like a real window or something there besides this.† This is not what I would like to see on the front of that mall.† Even if you shorten it, it is very stark.

 

Mr. Okum added your picture shows Cheeseburger in Paradise without the sign on that loop. Mr. Rich answered itíll be there.† Itíll look just like the one at Eastgate for the most part.†

 

 

 

 

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VI A. TRI-COUNTY MALL REDEVELOPMENT Ė continued

 

Mr. Okum said I am a little concerned about how the 15% content on the atmospheric graphic panels will be worded.† I donít want to establish a precedent on how we review signs in Springdale.† I think if we take the gross number of the space of those atmospheric panels and say there shall be no more than 15% of all of those signs as advertising, you limit it.† Mr. Rich indicated that there could be one panel with all the advertising on it.† Mr. Okum responded I am just saying that we need to be worried about how that is addressed.

 

Mr. Rich responded if it is 15% per sign; in my mind no sign will be objectionable or become all sign, because 85% of it will be the atmospheric content.† If you add all that up, the greatest amount you would ever have is 15%.† I would suggest that most of the panels would be 8, 10 or 12%, which would make the total content significantly less than 15%.† Also, I think it is a kind of balance, a picture and tenant i.d. etc. etc., a balanced look that I think you would like.†

 

Mr. Okum responded I donít have a problem with the 15%. I am very pleased with what you are presenting.† I just want to make sure that we donít establish a precedent that affects us in our decision-making process.† I want to make sure that we donít make a mistake by bringing into this a calculation that staff used as a rule of thumb for this project that they canít use fairly for all businesses.† Whatever we have to do to make sure it is right is fine with me, and I donít know how to do that.

 

Ms. McBride said on the Mars Music sign, that was their corporate logo, and corporate logos would be included in the signage.† I donít think the pictures that we are seeing of the family from Macyís are not their corporate logos.† So I would not interpret those as signage.†

 

Two of the four examples we have are Kayís Jewelers and the Coldstone Creamery and neither one of those users has any signage on the mall other than what they may get occasionally on the community video screen.† They would be entitled to some little sign on the mall permanently, and I would rather see them incorporated as part of an image and enhancement feature to the mall.† I would differentiate between the corporate logo of the Mars Music and the golden arches of McDonaldís versus images.

 

Mr. Okum said so you are saying that the 15% verbiage that they have used is acceptable and it should not get us into a problem with other businesses.† Ms. McBride answered I am saying that we will calculate that 15% just like we calculate any other sign in town and it will include the background area for that 15%.† †However, the area that is image above and beyond the lettering that is not a part of their logo but a picture of a child or whatever, that is not incorporated within the signage.

 

Mr. Butrum said on the atmospheric graphic panels, when you were here before, I thought you would be designing all of those.† Might Macyís be doing their own?†

 

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VI A. TRI-COUNTY MALL REDEVELOPMENT Ė continued

 

Mr. Rich responded the mall will be responsible for the content.† It is not a part of our contractual obligation.† Mr. Butrum said when I see a particular store on there, I am assuming they will have a lot of leeway in terms of what goes on that, including the graphic behind it.††

 

My point is in the former scenario when there wasnít anything related to signage on those, I thought there probably would be one entity responsible for designing them, and a visual oneness because a lot of them are in close proximity with each other.† In those cases, if four different people are designing four different things, I am not sure there will be that continuity that I was expecting when it was the mall doing it.†

 

Mr. Rich commented the best local example I can give you is Newport on the Levy.† The content of those panels is controlled through the mall and they are represented by different retailers in the mall.† †They are primarily an atmospheric content, although they are not nearly as restrictive as what we are proposing here.

 

Mr. Butrum added before I was less concerned about defining the atmospheric content.† Previously we defined what it couldnít be.† Depending on what that is defined as, I do wonder if the graphic behind the name starts to become their image as well.† What I am seeing I am not objecting to.

 

Mr. Rich responded I think retailers today are pretty sophisticated in that respect, and use that sophistication to their marketing advantage.†† I think it will be the responsibility of the mall to insure that the content of those panels are appropriate and consistent.† I donít know how to insure I beyond that.† I donít know that you could ever define it with words, except to make it so restrictive that you could only ever do one thing.

 

Mr. Butrum responded as long as the mall is taking responsibility for that, it will be okay.

 

Mike Lyons General Manager of the Tri-County Mall reported we will have control of whatever graphics go up there.† It is our property and whatever we do will have to fit within our marketing theme.† We want it to be cohesive, look good and create that atmosphere overall.† It will go through whatever approval process that we have.† I donít see these things changing a lot.†

 

Mr. Rich commented I would be more concerned if I were in your place about the graphic content on the pylon sign because that is a much more aggressive forum for signage than the atmospheric graphic panels.†† The only thing I can say to amplify Mikeís comments is that I think the mall is responsible for its appearance and wants its appearance to be as sophisticated as possible.†† Thatís what they have said to us, and that is why they are putting the money in.††††††††††††††

 

Mr. Butrum commented I believe that from the standpoint that as long as the mall isnít giving up that aspect, I wonít be concerned.

 

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VI A. TRI-COUNTY MALL REDEVELOPMENT Ė continued

 

Mr. Butrum continued regarding the pylon sign, I was curious about the video display.† The dimensions are 40í x 18í.† I am not asking from the aspect of total square footage; I have no problem with that.† Where did that come from?† Mr. Rich responded it came from our consultant.† Mr. Butrum added the reason I am asking is because Iím not sure there is going to be any content that matches that.†† Typically video content either will be at a 4 x 3 or a 16 x 9 aspect ratio. ††If you had something that was 18 feet high, 32 feet wide would be16 x 9.†† So we are actually wider than a typical cinematic aspect ratio.† Things look better if they are going to fill the screen and I would be more inclined to† push for the same 40 feet wide and maybe 22 Ĺ feet high if possible.

 

Mr. Rich said the new video billboards on I-75 have aspect ratios that are less high to the width that we have.† So we actually increased the height from the original submittal and maintained the width.† That is what was recommended by our consultant as the correct aspect ratio.† It can be whatever you want it to be.† We are really trying to comply more with industry standards.

 

Mr. Butrum said if people are going to try to leverage content, they already have, and Iím not sure they are going to have any content that meets this specification.† ††Mr. Rich responded all I am saying to you is that the aspect ratio for this is higher to its width than a typical billboard and higher to its width than the three video screens that we know of in the immediate Cincinnati area.† We feel comfortable with the contents there, and the billboard dimensions which were recommended by our consultant.††† Mr. Butrum added it seems like they would have to create custom content; everything would have to be original for it.† Mr. Rich responded I think it is actually opposite, because our aspect ratio is higher to our width, if we use a standard billboard company to program it, they will have to squeeze it down.

 

Mr. Butrum asked if these examples met the 15% criterion.† Mr. Rich responded I told my staff to make it 15%.††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† †††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††

 

Mr. Vanover reported on the next page there is a note that says ďThe height of the top wire of the overhead power lines at approximate mi-point is 52.7 feet plus or minus above the ground.† This picture has those wires in it, so the bottom sign panel would be at the top wire.†

 

Mr. Okum said we worked with Steak ĎNí Shake in the redevelopment on the south side of their building.† I thought that came out very well, and I see exactly the same thing on this outlot building.† That effect could be carried over, landscaping and the dumpster enclosure moved away from the building.† It might be good for the architect to take a look at that because I think that was a success.† If they could incorporate that on the outlot, I would be pleased with that.

 

Mr. Rich commented I am representing my client, but Iíll be glad to pass that on.

 

 

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VI A. TRI-COUNTY MALL REDEVELOPMENT Ė continued

 

Mr. Okum added I was considering wording the motion to say that the east side of the outlot building shall be treated in similar fashion as the current Steak ĎNí Shake south side.†

 

Ms. McBride commented if we are able to locate it, for example, to that landscape island east of that and it works from an access standpoint in terms of servicing the dumpster and usage for the restaurants, I personally would rather see it located even further off Kemper Road tucked back behind the building.† If you put something like that in the motion, our hands would be tied and we would have to do what is at Steak ĎNí Shake.† †I think there may be the opportunity for even other solutions at this location, and we would like to be able to explore those.

 

Mr. Rich suggested wording it so that the location is to the satisfaction of the staff.† Mr. Okum added it is not only the dumpster.† I think the outlot elevation needs to be treated as the front and not the rear.†

 

Mr. Shvegzda reported items A through J deal with the recommendations as part of the traffic study.† They are all noted within the submitted plans or in the attached concept plans for Tri-County Kemper Road Improvements.† J deals with the timing and phasing to incorporate it into the closed loop system and that would be performed by TEC.

 

Item 2 denotes the construction cost estimate for the public improvements to Kemper Road.† It is staffís understanding that the roadway work will be done by the City with reimbursement from the applicant.

 

On the internal traffic study, there needs to be an additional right lane in the southbound lane in front of the intersection adjacent to the Carabbas and Cheeseburger location to handle the traffic in that area.† That is noted on Sheet C 2.0.† There are comments that involve the decorative pavers that are used in this area.

 

On the south side where the new driveway comes in from Kemper Road, the internal analysis indicates that it will function with the key intersection with the particular noted lanes inbound and it being a continuous movement inbound.†

 

On the parking lot layout, initially there were some concerns that some of the areas that we have for main drive aisles have some curvature, that they have some protection for some of the adjacent parking areas via a raised hopefully landscaped island.† There appears to be other areas where we have a five-foot striped island at the one edge of a parking field, and if that could be incorporated into a raised island with landscaping it would be advantageous to the site.

 

On the site layout and the outparcel, everything is presented in the proposed outparcel drawings and appears to be acceptable.† Obviously there are details that still need to be provided.†

 

 

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VI A. TRI-COUNTY MALL REDEVELOPMENT Ė continued

 

Mr. Shvegzda added there are two issues.† There appears to be some discrepancy between the overall site plan grading and what is shown for the detailing on the outparcel.† It could be that the level of detail on the overall grading might not be the same as what is shown on the outparcel detail plans.

 

The other issue concerns Kemper Road improvements.† Those arenít reflected on the site plan, and there may be some impact on some of the parking.† You can see how that angles down in the vicinity of the southwest corner of that area.† That may affect some of the parking numbers when the final construction plans for Kemper Road improvements are completed.

 

On the ring road and the reconfigured area of J.C. Penneyís box, we need to know the detailing of that decorative pavement.†† Mr. Rich said it will be color concrete.† Mr. Shvegzda responded that needs to be detailed because it is critical on how that interacts with whatever pavement markings are necessary in that vicinity.†

 

The fire truck turning analysis was acceptable.† We will look at it at the next level of detailed plans but it appears to be acceptable.† On the Sears drive at Kemper Road, a pedestrian access point should be incorporated from the vicinity of the northwest corner of the Tri-County Parkway/Kemper intersection to the parking field and have it open to pedestrians at some point into the parking field.†

 

Previously we talked about eliminating the utility pole from the corner of 747 and Kemper.† That has been submitted to Cinergy and we have not heard back.†

 

On the west side by the restaurants we have the same issue on the details of the decorative pavements.† Through that area, we have the southbound lane that widens out to provide a right turn only lane.† As indicating on the drawing now, we have two lanes, north and south, and at some point it becomes two lanes in the southbound direction, and that needs to be clarified as how that transitions out to that lane.

 

There are no dimensions included on some of the parking field proposed plans and that needs to be added.† The same comment applies to the signalized entrance drive from Kemper Road.† The number of lanes are proper, but they are not dimensioned.† In the proposed parking area by the old J.C. Penney store, there are no dimensions and scaling. Some of the aisle widths are 33 and there are various sizes.† Within that constraint, the overall dimensions donít fit.† There might have to be some modifications.† It appears that it could be worked out if we bring some of those drive aisles down to the minimum required.† We also might have to come into the landscape area on the east side of the proposed drive to provide the proper depths of the parking fields and drive aisles.

 

It is the same basic comment for the parking lot reconfiguration in the vicinity of the drives that will be closed to the south of the mall.

 

 

 

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VI A. TRI-COUNTY MALL REDEVELOPMENT Ė continued

 

Mr. Shvegzda added there are proposed plans for the modification to the sanitary sewer and water line.† Additional detail will be needed and the courses will have to be approved by MSD and Cincinnati Water Works.† In conjunction with this, there will be a fairly major interruption during that construction period of the ring road in that vicinity so the maintenance of traffic will have to be incorporated with the final plans.

 

Letters have been included with the submission noting that a request has been made of MSD and Cincinnati Water Works regarding sewer availability, and at this point, there has been no response.

 

Mr. Vanover said there seems to be two ways of doing the color concrete, a topical color or through and through.† Which is it?† Mr. Rich responded that has not been determined.† It is our desire to use integral color, but shake on color concrete is better than no color concrete.† It is my hope that it will be, and that is what we are preparing for.† Mr. Vanover commented that would be my hope too.

 

Mr. Galster said one of the biggest complaints I received during the Menís Wearhouse expansion was that you took the prime parking away.† I want to make sure that we pay attention to what parking spaces we are taking for construction trailers.

 

Mr. Okum asked if we needed a dual left turn off Kemper going south on 747.† Mr. Shvegzda responded yes, because we are shortening up the overall length of that left hand turn.†

 

Mr. Okum commented it would be nice to see Cassinelliís entrance on Kemper widened.† It seems a tremendously narrow entrance.† If we are doing right of way work there, could we get that widened?

 

Mr. Shvegzda answered what will happen is part of what was noted in the traffic study.† There is an extra lane that will be the additional outbound lane.† Now that is right in and right out, and we have a large landscape area so internally that will be modified.†

 

Mr. Okum added when you are coming out of Tri-County straight across the street, could you have two left turns out of the mall?† You could have two rights or a left, two lefts or straight in the middle lane.†

 

Mr. †Shvegzda answered we would have to take a look at the timing for that.† These lanes were the ones that were a part of the traffic study.†

 

Mr. Okum said to comment on that big proposed concrete medium on page 3, maybe we could do something besides that, maybe color concrete or landscaped island area.† Itís pretty big.†

 

Mr. Okum said on the colored concrete, isnít most of the parking lot blacktop, except where the walkways are?† Mr. Rich responded we are showing that we are replacing some of that asphalt.†† Mr. Okum commented it would be nice to see that; one of those things you notice going into a mall is what you walk on.†

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VI A. TRI-COUNTY MALL REDEVELOPMENT Ė continued

 

Mr. Okum wondered if the lettering that says Springdale on the pylon sign and outlot signs was illuminated. †Mr. Rich answered it is currently not illuminated and it is also not a Springdale logo.† We didnít illuminate it because we didnít want to elevate it to what we thought was the retail function; we thought it would be more discreet.

 

Mr. Vanover said I do appreciate the Springdale on that sign.† I live in Springdale; I donít live in Cincinnati.† My son was home when this was delivered and he called this ďsweetĒ; that is your 21-year old consumer.†

 

Mr. Okum asked if staff or the applicant saw any problem with us reviewing the Cheeseburger in Paradise building west elevation later.† I like the idea of Cheeseburger in Paradise going there and we approved it before, but we havenít seen the elevation of what will be on the front of our biggest tenant in the community.

 

Mr. Rich asked if it would be for staff review or would it come back before Planning.† If it is a staff review, there is no problem.† The tenants are eager to get in and to begin construction.† So to get back in line for planning and zoning approval would make it more of an issue.

 

Mr. Okum said I have all the confidence in the world in the staff knowing what this commission would like to see.†† Ms. McBride suggested that if you want to defer it to staff, we could run the final design by the chairman to make sure he was comfortable with it.† That wouldnít hold up the applicant in terms of submittals, but the commission itself would have some input.†

 

Mr. Syfert asked their timetable and Mr. Rich reported that they have been asked to have the drawings prepared for bid by the end of this month.†

 

Mr. Okum moved to approve the Tri-County Mall Redevelopment Project Final Development Plan including BHDPís plans 114 received February 3, 2006 and the attached drawings, and Thor Equityís bound packet received February 3, 2006.

 

1.      This also shall include all staff city engineer and city plannerís review and recommendations, and law director and staffís approval of the PUD covenants.

2.      Mechanical units shall be screened in approved enclosures.

3.      All four building elevations shall include the colors and finishes as submitted, except for Cheeseburger in Paradiseís west elevation, which shall be reviewed by staff and the chairman for approval.

4.      Signage shall be approved based on staffís comments and an agreement between the City of Springdale and the mall.

5.      Color pavings and walkways are to be as represented in the bound packet and color pallet.

6.      The east side of the outlot building shall be treated as a front elevation and be approved by staff.

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VI A. TRI-COUNTY MALL REDEVELOPMENT Ė continued

 

7.      Atmospheric panels shall have no more than 15% of any panel or shall be signage.

 

Mr. Butrum seconded the motion.

 

Mr. Rich said on the elevation for the outlot building, they also hope to be able to submit their drawings for bid at the end of this month.

 

Mr. Okum said I based it on staffís review and approval of that.† Mr. Rich responded my only concern is since there are only two weeks left in the month, what would the process be?† For instance, there are existing elevations so if there need to be modifications to those elevations, how would that process happen?† Would they have adequate time to make the adjustments?†† They are adapting the prototype.† I want to be clear so I can bring it back to Thor because to hold the tenant, they want to be able to deliver this package at the end of the month.†

 

Ms. McBride commented I think what Thor or the architect for the outparcel could do is submit for their building permit, and we can be working with them to develop that east elevation.† Then they could modify their building permit submittal.† †

 

Mr. Rich responded so you are saying you will work with them because when you submit for a permit, there is a review period, and the expectation would be a customized service, right?† Ms. McBride answered fortunately the review department is right here, so we can work together on this.†

 

Mr. Rich responded I donít doubt that; I just want to be clear for them that they need to tweak their elevation.† Ms. McBride said they can still get in and get processing on the permit.† Mr. McErlane added I envision it being just some changes to the elevation and possibly to the plan in some sections which have been modified so we are not talking about an overall revision to the building drawings.† Mr. Rich said it is a cosmetic adjustment rather than modifying a plan necessarily.† †Mr. Okum added it wasnít my intent in the motion to make them change the purpose or function of their operation, or the orientation of their operation.† It was basically to change the orientationís appearance so that you donít have the rear end of the building on the main thoroughfare.††††

 

Mr. Rich added I also had some comments on the staff comments.†† One of Ms. McBrideís comments was to delineate the specific locations of the perennials and day lilies.† We would like the flexibility so that those areas might not be day lilies but another kind of perennial.† Their concern is for that being a specific part of the PUD to require where we would have certain beds and thus become a fixed feature of the PUD.† There is also a generalized comment about additional shrubs being incorporated into the landscape beds† to add variety and height.† This is pretty vague, and we feel pretty good about the landscape plan as it is.† I want to be clear about those comments.

PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES

14 FEBRUARY 2006

PAGE TWENTY-THREE

 

VI A. TRI-COUNTY MALL REDEVELOPMENT Ė continued

 

Mr. Rich added I have a concern about what this constitutes in terms of complying with it for a PUD approval.

 

Mr. Syfert said there was to be some more discussion on the landscaping.† Ms. McBride confirmed this, adding that we can sit down with you and work out what we were looking for with some additional shrub massing to break up some of those beds.† Are we talking about 500 more shrubs Ė no.† We can certainly work with you on the location of the day lilies and other perennials.

 

Mr. Rich responded I am not overly worried about it except that your comments are pretty specific.† Ms. McBride added we will work with you to resolve those issues.†† Mr. Syfert added I donít see that as a problem at all; I donít think you have to be concerned about it.

 

On the motion to approve the final development plan for the Tri-County Mall Redevelopment, all voted aye, and approval was granted with seven affirmative votes.

 

VII.              DISCUSSION

 

Mr. Butrum asked about the Planners Conference on Saturday.† Mr. McErlane reported that we can fax it down tomorrow if you give your reservations to us.

 

Ms .McBride thanked the city staff, particularly Cecil for the letter they wrote on my behalf.† I received word last week that I am being nominated to the College of Fellows of the American Institute of Certified Planners big award, and I thank you.

 

VIII.            CHAIRMANíS REPORT

 

A.          Nationwide Insurance Ė 12181 Princeton Pike Ė Wall Sign

B.          Photography by Jessica Gerke Ė 11711 Princeton Pike Ė Wall Sign

C.          Tri-County Beauty College Ė 155 Northland Blvd. Ė Wall Sign

D.          Sprint Ė 80 West Kemper Road Ė Wall Sign

 

IX.               ADJOURNMENT

 

Mr. Galster moved to adjourn and Mr. Butrum seconded the motion.† By voice vote all voted aye, and Planning Commission adjourned at 9:20 p.m.

 

††††††††††† ††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Respectfully submitted,

 

 

 

____________________,2006†††† __________________________

††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† William G. Syfert, Chairman

 

 

 

____________________,2006†††† __________________________

††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††††† Lawrence Hawkins III, Secretary